Chinese Studies - 10 most difficult dialects - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
10 most difficult dialects
Home New Posts

Login: Pass: Log in or register for standard view and full access.





Page 2 of 4 < 1 2 34 >






Quest -



Quote:

Actually its jyu4 gwo2

I never understand the "j"... and why "jy"...



Pleco Software Learn Chinese with our Dictionaries for Palm and Pocket PC.
Learn Chinese in China Learn to speak Chinese 1MonthChinese.com -Mandarin School in China.
Chinese Textbooks Wide range, cheap, varied languages. Also Chinese cartoons, toys, gifts.
Study Chinese in Beijing Affordable Mandarin language courses at BLCU with ChinaUnipath.com.
HNHSoft Dictionary Learn Chinese on Smartphone and PDA with real person's voice.
XueXueXue IQChinese Get beyond the plateau.Take your Mandarin to a new level.
Chinese in Lijiang Short term Chinese study in a beautiful town with a focus on daily life.
MandarinTube Chinese Access to current everyday Chinese language and culture, 24/7.
Learn Chinese Homestay Chinese course, cultural activities & volunteer events in China.
Learn Chinese Online 1-on-1 instant tutoring, diverse courses, native teachers. FREE trial now!
Nihao Chinese Progam Free one-on-one Chinese lesson. Win 5-years of free lessons now!


About Ads (and how to hide them) -- Your message here









wannabeafreak -



Quote:

I never understand the "j"... and why "jy"...

Its because you haven't learnt how to read the romanisation yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyutping
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/essays/jyutping.htm
http://www.answers.com/topic/jyutping

Simply;

J = Y (English)
C = CH (English)
Z = J (English)

Then when you add "Y" after characters like K,S,J etc. it changes the pronunciation for which I'm
sure you can work out from the following:

決定 kyut3 ding6 = to decide
包括 baau1 kut3 = including

Then you've got words like:

想 soeng2 = to want
靚女 leng3 neoi2 = pretty girl

It takes less than 15 minutes to learn how to read Jyutping:

Adam Sheik's guide on the cantonese.sheik.co.uk site explains it nice and clearly.

I simply can't stand to read people's dodgy romanisation like "lei tai ng doe ah". So many people
can't be bothered to learn how to write properly and end up with some cr@p.










Ian_Lee -

wannabeafreak:

But if someone (like Quest and me) is born a native Cantonese speaker, why should he bother to
learn the romanization of Cantonese?










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

But if someone (like Quest and me) is born a native Cantonese speaker, why should he bother to
learn the romanization of Cantonese?

Well why does every Mainlander bother to learn Mandarin Pinyin? There is a perfectly good ping3
jam1 system for Cantonese. It helps in computer input too using the Jyutping IME system my wife
uses to type her MSN etc.

Also I'm sure they use Jyutping at Hong Kong universities for people studying linguistics.

It only takes less than 15 minutes to learn Jyutping - a small investment with great returns.










wai ming -

Well, I think we're getting a bit off topic here, but I think it's good for native Cantonese
speakers to learn some form of standard romanisation if they want to teach non-native speakers
Cantonese. The worst thing for a learner is seeing different romanisations for words which should
rhyme. Also, I think it makes people more aware of pronouncing words accurately (especially with
the -p, -t and -k stops in Cantonese).

That said, I still prefer Yale over Jyutping, if only because of that initial "j". I'm too used to
English j's.










sjcma -



Quote:

Well why does every Mainlander bother to learn Mandarin Pinyin? There is a perfectly good ping3
jam1 system for Cantonese. It helps in computer input too using the Jyutping IME system my wife
uses to type her MSN etc.

Also I'm sure they use Jyutping at Hong Kong universities for people studying linguistics.

It only takes less than 15 minutes to learn Jyutping - a small investment with great returns.

So why did you learn Jyutping instead of Standard Cantonese Pinyin? Is it because that's what the
teacher teaches or did you make the decision on your own?

As to the value of learning Cantonese romanization for the native speaker, it really depends on
the person. My wife doesn't have a need to romanize anything in Cantonese. She doesn't need to
read it, she doesn't need to write it, and neither do I, except in forums such as this.

Regarding why Mainlanders _bother_ to learn Hanyu Pinyin, it's because they had no choice. That's
what they were taught. Most people on Taiwan do not know any romanization standards for Mandarin.










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

So why did you learn Jyutping instead of Standard Cantonese Pinyin? Is it because that's what the
teacher teaches or did you make the decision on your own?

As to the value of learning Cantonese romanization for the native speaker, it really depends on
the person. My wife doesn't have a need to romanize anything in Cantonese. She doesn't need to
read it, she doesn't need to write it, and neither do I, except in forums such as this.

Regarding why Mainlanders _bother_ to learn Hanyu Pinyin, it's because they had no choice. That's
what they were taught. Most people on Taiwan do not know any romanization standards for Mandarin.

Standard Cantonese Pinyin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Cantonese_Pinyin) is impossible
to read! Standard Cantonese romanisation uses 9 tones while Jyutping uses 6 tones. I've never met
a single person to master the Standard Cantonese Pinyin.

I study Cantonese full-time. I use Adam Sheik's dictionary (cantodict) for hours each day
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/ and his dictionary uses Jyutping. I have a few books
that use Yale and I keep making pronunciation mistakes. Most of the people on Adam's Cantonese
forum uses Jyutping for which I think has superior accuracy in outlining pronunciation.

When I learnt Jyutping my pronunciation immediately improved and I can say every word accurately.
My Cantonese tutor doesn't even know Standard Cantonese Pinyin, Jyutping or Yale. He is from
Guangzhou and knows only Pinyin. So I romanise everything he says using Jyutping without any of
his assistance. For speed and accuracy, Jyutping is best I think. Especially long/short sounding
characters can be captured accurately through Jyutping.

I attended a dodgy school in Sydney once and the teacher just said to make up your own
romanisation. This was a terrible mistake. I ended up writing some cr@p and my pronunciation of
words was terrible.

I think its important to learn how to romanise with something easy if your intention is to teach
Cantonese. I think with Yale the person eventually ends up writing some rubbish like "ngorr haai
joong gwock yahn". At least know the tones that correspond to each character is important I think
too. Nothing worse than revising notes that have incorrect tones next to each word.










Quest -

I agree romanization is a good thing, but still the "j" bothers me.. Is it necessary? Is "yu" a
different word than "jyu"?










wannabeafreak -



Quote:

I agree romanization is a good thing, but still the "j" bothers me..

Well something that needs to get used to. German learners are capable of saying "J" as an English
"Y" so can Cantonese learners then.



Quote:

Is it necessary? Is "yu" a different word than "jyu"?

It's absolutely necessary, look at the following:

決 kyut3
括 kut3

The "y" in Jyutping has a different function as it modifes the pronunciation of "u" to be more
like the english pronunciation of "you". So [letter]+"yu"+[letter] sounds totally different to
[letter]+"u"+[letter] as proved by the usage of 決 kyut3 and 括 kut3










skylee -

I agree with Quest. I dislike that "j" too.












All times are GMT +8. The time now is 04:51 PM.














Learn Chinese, Chinese Online Class, Learning Materials, Mandarin audio lessons, Chinese writing lessons, Chinese vocabulary lists, About chinese characters, News in Chinese, Go to China, Travel to China, Study in China, Teach in China, Dictionaries, Learn Chinese Painting, Your name in Chinese, Chinese calligraphy, Chinese songs, Chinese proverbs, Chinese poetry, Chinese tattoo, Beijing 2008 Olympics, Mandarin Phrasebook, Chinese editor, Pinyin editor, China Travel, Travel to Beijing, Travel to Tibet