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atitarev -

Combining characters is a good idea, although there's often no match or character frequency/usage
or meaning is different. Using Unihan database (or also CQuickTrans) you can always find out
Japanese or Cantonese reading of the same character (plus Korean, sometimes Vietnamese), even if
it was simplified differently.

I also use NJStar Japanese WP and Wenlin to find relationships betweeen characters and make
vocabulary lists.

It's also time consuming but there are a few dictionaries online/offline and books, which can give
you readings of characters in other languages. There are not many, though. NJStar Japanese used to
always show PINYIN in character info, they discontinued it in newer versions.

HanConv tool can romanise Chinese character using Mandarin's Hanyu Pinyin or Cantonese Yale or
Jyutping, which is also helpful if you want to learn reading in both Mandarin and Cantonese.

--
Yes, with the age it becomes more difficult to learn.



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Lugubert -



Quote:


Originally Posted by atitarev

Natives usually don't type dagger-alif, it doesn't even exist on standard Arabic keyboard.


I shouldn't even mention the time I've spent trying to find a computer font that allows me to
write a hamzah without a "chair" but between adjacent letters, as shown in Wright's grammar, §17
(b) Rem. a. for the word 'as'alu.


Quote:

Yes, with the age it becomes more difficult to learn.

but certainly not impossible. I just finished 3rd semester Chinese. "Semester" in Sweden means the
equivalent of 20 weeks at 40 hours per week of studies.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Xiao Kui

But seeing the struggles that people have learning languages when they're in their 40s and 50s, I
think I should go ahead and start learning it now while the brain can handle that kind of info
overload.


See above. But at 63, I sure can attest to the difference. When I was 24, I got from scratch to
near-native levels of Dutch in two months in Amsterdam. I used to absorb vocabulary and grammar of
the three foreign languages taught in school (my age 12-18 ) automatically, not even trying. (I
suppose that this trait to a certain degree comes from my careful selection of genetic material ).
Nowadays, "even" Russian, an IE language like my native Swedish, requires quite an effort. Never
the less, in no too many years, I hope to be at least semi-fluent in 普通话 as well as in
русский язык (however inflected ).










atitarev -



Quote:

I shouldn't even mention the time I've spent trying to find a computer font that allows me to
write a hamzah without a "chair" but between adjacent letters, as shown in Wright's grammar, §17
(b) Rem. a. for the word 'as'alu.

Hamza without a "chair" (ء) is available on a standard Arabic keyboard, it's on "x" key. It
becomes adjacent if you type it between other letters (?).

Good luck with Russian and other languages you are planning to learn, you can ask me questions
about Russian, if you wish.










novemberfog -

Anyone thinking about learning Vietnamese? I've been going back and forth between either Arabic or
Vietnamese. If I went with Vietnamese, I would not have to learn a new alphabet. However, I'd have
to deal with tones again, probably the most difficult part of learning Chinese up to this point.

Is Vietnamese grammar difficult? Anyone have any experience learning Vietnamese?










Lugubert -

Atitarev: There was one way that hasn't been working previously: I typed the lengthening stroke
(Unicode 0640(hex)) and a hamzah (0654), and there it was:

ٲسـٔل

Thanks for making me try again!










Long Zhiren -

I studied some Korean (many years ago when I dated a Korean girl; and a lot of the Korean
community was insisting that I was Korean not Chinese...). Compared to Chinese, the grammar is
really different. Expressions get 很罗说. That relationship didn't work out and I've found
little use for Korean since. I would like some help to navigate Korean food though. There's some
yummy stuff out there.

I've been studying Hebrew for about four years now. The spoken language has much shared sounding
vocabulary with Arabic. It also goes right to left which is kind of cool unless you're right
handed. Otherwise, Hebrew writing looks a lot different than Arabic. My only use of Arabic now is
deciphering Middle Eastern currency for coin collecting, etc.

I've been studying Greek simultaneous with Hebrew. Studying more than one language at a time used
to be really difficult but for some reason, it's no longer a problem.










atitarev -

Lugubert, I (Anatoli) have sent you a PM on Word Reference (Arabic) forum, let's discuss it there

Long Zhiren, good luck with Vietnamese or Arabic, whatever you choose. To me, Vietnamese is not
different enough from Chinese. Arabic is quite a different game altogether, you have to start
thinking in opposite direction, like its script. It's so different from other languages I learned
before (unless you learned some semitic languages, it will be for you too). Vietnamese is easier
after Chinese, no doubt.










heifeng -

Once upon a time, well, ok, maybe just 1 year or more ago I tried to study Japanese. I thought it
was cool at first, but then again, starting at the very beginning of another language seemed a bit
terrifying. I got into it a bit (for the 2 whole months before I came to China), but found myself
asking how far did I really want to get into the language. After investing so much time in Chinese
I wasn't sure I wanted to go hard core into studying Japanese. Also my Japanese teacher kept on
telling me I had a Chinese accent when speaking Japanese (is this something Chinese learners
encounter when studying another language? Somehow you start inserting tones into the next language
you study? Maybe I just shouldn't had let on about my Chinese background...hmm...many questions
about what that was all about, but she made a point to mention this to me every class). Anyway, I
decided I still had a way to go with Chinese before I was confortable with putting it on the back
burner. So, basically, at this point I personally would just be happy with learning a Chinese
dialect, not for any business or 'useful' reasons, but just for fun. I took a few cantonese
classes before and enjoyed them very much. Yet my teachers will get worried looks on their face
when they see me carrying around sichuanhua or shanghai hua books, telling me not to corrupt my
Chinese studying with dialects...hehe. Then I have to promise to work on my tones more.

I still don't want to rule out Japanese study, or any other language study at this point, but I
have to admit that studying Chinese for so long, and trying to get to the point I want to get to
has required a great amount of time and effort. It will be difficult for me to do it again for
another language unless I actually pick up and move to that country (or I decide to study Korean
in either BJ or LA, always a possibility). Secondly, I don't know when I will ever reach that,
it's "ok" not to study Chinese anymore point, or it's ok, you don't need to feel guilty for not
working on this more, you can move on and study something new...I am assuming other people have
this voice in their head and guilty feelings if they don't study enough, at least I really hope
others do too!

Perhaps, on the 'one day I will study' list I would be interested in learning Mongolian or a
Chinese minority language that I may never really need to use, but will just find it satisfying to
be able to read something and know what it says, which is how my interest began in Chinese as well
=D










Long Zhiren -



Quote:

...but found myself asking how far did I really want to get into the language...

That is a good, wise question to ask. Before I embarked on Hebrew and Greek, I was afraid to,
thinking that my French and Chinese would get displaced and pushed out the back of my head due to
limited mental capacity. Here's what I've figured out after four years: (1) My mind's capacity
surprised me. It all kind of fits in there somehow. (2) I can open up in conversational French or
Chinese much faster now. (3) My conversational French and Chinese now quickly hit a dumbing
impasse that takes a little immersion to get back through. This impasse was not here before. It's
as if everything is in a newly jumbled state in my mind.

My conscious decision had been to focus on English, French and Chinese; while anything else was
with which just to toy around. I intend to continue with Hebrew and Greek to make them as strong.



Quote:

Also my Japanese teacher kept on telling me I had a Chinese accent when speaking Japanese (is this
something Chinese learners encounter when studying another language? Somehow you start inserting
tones into the next language you study?

Yes. Absolutely. I have a 100% ethnic Chinese cousin, whose first language is Mandarin, who became
fluent in Russian as a second language. His broken English has a severely heavy Russian accent in
it. If you couldn't seem him but tried talking to him in English, you would be convinced that you
were talking to a Russian person.










wushijiao -



Quote:

but I have to admit that studying Chinese for so long, and trying to get to the point I want to
get to has required a great amount of time and effort. It will be difficult for me to do it again
for another language unless I actually pick up and move to that country (or I decide to study
Korean in either BJ or LA, always a possibility). Secondly, I don't know when I will ever reach
that, it's "ok" not to study Chinese anymore point, or it's ok, you don't need to feel guilty for
not working on this more, you can move on and study something new...I am assuming other people
have this voice in their head and guilty feelings if they don't study enough, at least I really
hope others do too!

That’s almost exactly what I’ve been thinking! I’m constantly saying to myself that I’ll
be at the stage in which my Mandarin will be sufficient in, about, oh, three or four months. The
problem is, I’ve been saying that for years. I keep moving my goal posts back on what should be
my acceptable final Mandarin level. Also, Since I’m in China right now (and may not always be),
it seems a bit ludicrous to study another language, in the same sense of living in Italy and not
having perfect Italian but starting to study Hindi would be ludicrous.

But I also think it might be possible to lay down a foundation of the basics in a language that I
might want to learn (to fluency) in the future. Like Long Zhiren said, one’s mind is often
surprisingly good. I don’t think a language ever gets “lost” or “forgotten”; but rather,
it “hibernates”. So years later, after complete neglect, once you start studying it again
intensely, it comes back quickly.

Also, I kind of feel that in a decade or two my mind will probably function much slower, and
I’ll probably have a lot less free time to dedicate to language study. So it might be worthwhile
now to solidly build the foundation of learning a new language, which I could build on later. I
don’t know.












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