Chinese Course

Study Chinese - Tsinghua University

2009-01-31T07:08:00.001-08:00

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Tsinghua University

( 2008-07-08 )

Tsinghua University, located in the northwestern suburbs of Beijing, was established in 1911 on the site of "Qing Hua Yuan" - a former royal garden of the Qing Dynasty. Funded with part of the "Boxer Indemnity," it was at first a preparatory school called "Tsinghua Xuetang" for those students who
were sent by the government to study in the United States.

On April 29, 1911, Tsinghua Xuetang began its first term, and from then on the last Sunday of April was set as the school's anniversary. The name was changed to "Tsinghua School" after the 1911 Revolution.

In 1925, a university section was established, offering a four-year program for students. In 1928, its name was changed to "National Tsinghua University，" and in the autumn of 1929 a graduate school was set up.

Following the outbreak of the War of Resistance against Japanese Aggression in 1937, Tsinghua University, Peking University and Nankai University merged to form the Southwest Associated University in Kunming. After the war, Tsinghua University moved back to the original campus in Beijing and
resumed operation at its present location.

Three years after the founding of the People's Republic of China, a nationwide restructuring of institutes of higher education was initiated, and in 1952, Tsinghua University became a multidisciplinary polytechnic university with an emphasis on training engineers.

Since 1978, during the period of reform and opening to the rest of the world, Tsinghua University has gradually restored such disciplines as science, economic management, humanities and law. It has developed into a comprehensive, research-oriented university open to the whole world.

In 1999, Tsinghua opened the School of Arts and Design by merging with the Central Academy of Arts and Design. Tsinghua has become a leading comprehensive university with engineering as its focus, while concurrently offering degrees in science, liberal arts, management and law.

At present, the University has 13 schools and 55 departments with faculties in science, engineering, humanities and social sciences, medicine and the arts. There are 62 undergraduate programs, 198 master’s degree programs and 181 doctoral degree programs offering courses of study leading to
bachelor’s, master’s and doctoral degrees.

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　 Emblems More

* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

Meet in Beijing More

* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

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Chinese Character - “Five Nights”Kicks Off

2009-01-31T02:11:00.001-08:00

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“Five Nights”Kicks Off

( 2008-07-01 )

From June 23 to the end of September, the grand gala “Five Nights” will highlight Olympic cultural activities with more than a thousand of arts from over 100 countries of five continents perform wonderful dances and songs.

The first show of “Five Nights”—— Arab Night

Original literature classics of Arab,

Widespread Arab Dances,

Profound Arabic Culture,

Melodious Arab music,

Lively features…

Once Arab is mentioned, it always sparks imaginations: boundless deserts, traveling camel caravans, the men in white gowns, the girls who wear veils exposing brilliant black eyes… also the famous symphony of Russian composer Borodin—— In the Steppes of Central Asia, Rimsky-Korsakov’s
symphony One Thousand and One Nights, the famous American movie Lawrence of Arabia, the famous Egyptian movie La Dolce vita and the Doobie Dance which is popular around the world…

Based on the principle of studying one another, seeking common points while reserving differences and respecting world diversity, more than 1,000 artists will come to Beijing and bring five performances of song and dance with different customs—— Asia Night, Africa Night, Latin America Night,
Arab Night and SCO (Shanghai Cooperation Organization) Night from June, 23 to September. The splendid “Five Nights” will review and prospect the accord development of the world culture from different aspect, continue transferring the good wish of “one world one dream” for the Beijing
Olympic Games in 2008. “Five Nights” will lead major Olympic cultural events to a spurting climax and display the grand art works that come from different countries and regions. Everybody will enjoy the peace and harmony of the world!

Both Arab and China are in the east of the world. Many art groups come from Arabian countries come together to Beijing and present song and dance with strong Arabic customs and make the performance to be an audiovisual feast—— “Arab Night” in this passionate summer night.

The “Arab Night” this year will emphasize the subject—— China and Arab cultural communication, and on the other hand it will be different from former years. We will provide a new style opening performance different from the performance in former years that combined formal dance and
voiceovers.

SCO (Shanghai cooperative Organization) Night—A Gathering of Nostalgic Songs

Enriched with Russian and central Asian flavor, this special concert should never be missed by the audiences who love the classical soviet songs. Directed by Ge Xiaohong, the director of CCTV, the concert will be performed by China National Symphony Orchestra and artists from the five countries of
SCO will adopt chorus, semichorus, solo and accordion as their performing forms to play such classical songs as Moscow Nights, Song of the volga boat men and Katyusha.

Time: July 18 to 19

Venue: National Centre for the Performing Arts

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* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* To showcase China's intangible heritage
* Interview: "Medea 2" to be shown in Beijing
* Cultural feast during Olympic Games
* Home cooking for athletes in Olympic Village
* Beijing Olympic village opens to athletes

Meet in Beijing More

* Passing the Baton in Beijing
* Cameroonian Ballet Meets Argentine Tango
* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

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Learn Chinese, Learning Chinese, Learning Materials, Mandarin audio lessons, Chinese writing lessons, Chinese vocabulary lists, About chinese characters, News in Chinese, Go to China, Travel to China, Study in China, Teach in China, Dictionaries, Learn Chinese Painting, Your name in Chinese, Chinese calligraphy, Chinese songs, Chinese proverbs, Chinese poetry, Chinese tattoo, Beijing 2008 Olympics, Mandarin Phrasebook, Chinese editor, Pinyin editor, China Travel, Travel to Beijing,

Free Chinese Lesson - Attractions of Beijing

2009-01-24T07:15:00.001-08:00

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Attractions of Beijing

( 2008-06-27 )

Liulichang Street of Chinese Culture

Prince Gong's Mansion

Shichahai

Others:

The following historical relics and newly built architecture are worth your visit as well.

Ancient Observatory

Bell and Drum Towers

China Century Monument

Lugou Bridge (Marco Polo Bridge)

Peking Man Site (Beijing Yuanren Yizhi)

Stone Flower Cave (Shi Hua Cave)

1 2 3

　 Emblems More

* Dancing Beijing -- Beijing 2008 Olympic Emblem

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

* Beijing Paralympics Emblem ( 07-10 )
* Environmental Emblem of Beijing 2008 ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Torch Relay ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing 2008 OYC ( 07-10 )
* Emblem of the Beijing Olympic Cultural Festival ( 07-10 )

News More

* Museums to exhibit 1,000 national treasures
* Creating new rituals, Beijing style
* Marine mural unveiled in capital
* Illustrated Olympic giant panda story comes out
* Ten recommended Beijing shopping streets

Meet in Beijing More

* Dance Along the River during the Qingming Festival
* Concert by Macao Chinese Orchestra
* Kataklo Athletic Dance Theatre
* UK Contemporary Exhibition
* The Russia Star Ballet

Olympic on Beijing's Axis

　 Online Tour

============================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================

| About us | E-mail | Contact |

Constructed by .cn
Copyright 2003 Ministry of Culture, P.R.China. All rights reserved

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Learn Chinese online - Tibetan Masks

2009-01-13T06:56:00.001-08:00

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Exchange>Exhibition

Tibetan Masks

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – Auspicious Goddess Mahakali

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – Mahakala

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – Gadhi

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – red face

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – black face

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Guardian Deity – green face

A Tibetan mask for the sorcerer's dance: Deity in charge of celestial burial

A Tibetan hanging mask: ghost soldier in hell

A Tibetan hanging mask: ghost soldier in hell

Tibetan opera mask: white face

Tibetan opera mask: blue face

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Pnyin - Chinese Cultural Ambassadors Outshine in Southern Skies

2009-01-12T06:49:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Cultural Ambassadors Outshine in Southern Skies

Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia at the opening ceremony

"Southern Skies -- Chinese Artists in Australia" is on display in the Australian embassy from April 9 to April 16, 2008. The eight Chinese artists involved in the show have been living and working in Australia for nearly two decades. They had a solid understanding of Chinese culture before leaving
and have also been influenced by Australian culture. Their works reflect the combination and integration of the two cultures and the artists' new thoughts about the world.

When talking about relationships between two countries, people often refer to political and economical ties. But cultural relationships also draw on communication and understanding, and a contemporary art exhibition in Beijing is currently illustrating the friendship between China and Australia.

Organizer Madeleine O'Dea calls the "Southern Skies" artists "cultural ambassadors."

"This exhibition is a celebration of nearly twenty years of relations between Chinese contemporary artists and Australia."

In the late 1980's and early 1990's, this group of Chinese artists decided that in order to develop as artists, they needed to go overseas. They went to Australia, where they all struggled somewhat, but eventually became successful artists producing beautiful work.

Their work has also drawn the attention of Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd. He opened the exhibition in the Australian embassy and reviewed a painting by renowned artist Guan Wei.

"See, for example, a piece such as that by Guan Wei over to our right, which is a traditional Chinese 山水 (landscape) painting. If you look carefully, and I suggest that to the Australians who are present, who are visiting, you will see Ned Kelly being persecuted at the bottom of the waterfall.
So this is kind of Ned Kelly via Sidney Nolan through Guan Wei into a Chinese landscape of the Ming Dynasty -- you figure it out. But I tell you what -- it's kind of a lot of fun."

The piece Rudd mentioned is Guan Wei's acrylic on rice paper scroll called "Tracing Downing Ned Kelly, No. 2." Completed in 2004, the scroll portrays a modern antiterrorism story in a Ming Dynasty setting.

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Free Chinese Lesson - Chou (clown, male or female)

2009-01-11T09:20:00.001-08:00

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Chou (clown, male or female)

Liu Lihua

Liu Lihua was the owner of the inn located at the intersection of three roads. Liu mistook Ren Tanghui, secret escort assigned to protect Jiao Zan, general of the Song Dynasty (960-1279), as intended assassin and wanted to kill him. So he entered Ren's room at night and the two were engaged in a
fierce fight in darkness. They were not aware of each other's identities until they were informed of the truth.

Repertoire:Crossroads

Chong Gongdao

On the way to escort Su San, who was accused of murder by invented charge, to Taiyuan for retrial, Chong Gongdao, the prison escort, showed first his sympathy with and then his care to Su San. Finally he adopted her as his daughter.

Repertoire: Su San on Her Way

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Learn Chinese - Items on Display 4

2009-01-10T07:06:00.001-08:00

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Exchange>Exhibition

Items on Display 4

Old Butter Lamp

5cm x 33cm

Loom

157cm x 144cm

Chema Box

75cm x 20cm x 60cm

Incense Cabinet

75cn x 21cm x 58cm

Tibetan Desk

90cm x 45cm x 55cm

Wooden Bed, Kardian Rug, Seat Cushions and Bed Cushions

Tibetan Incense Tube

10cm x 65cm

Buttered Tea Pot and Stove

30cm x 30cm x 40cm

Buttered Tea Bucket

15cm x 113cm

Bronze Wine Vessel

13cm x 22cm

Metal Pot Inlaid With Colorful Stones

10cm x 20cm

Qoingyai Jade Bowls

10cm x 8cm

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Chinese Tutor - Introduction in Different Languages

2009-01-09T06:58:00.001-08:00

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Introduction in Different Languages

Downland

English, Japanese, Arabic, Spanish, French, Russian

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Free Chinese Lesson - Have Fun!

2009-01-08T07:30:00.001-08:00

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Chinese Way>Life

Have Fun!

532 Choices for Your New Year's Eve Dinner

An Olympic-themed dish is displayed on Nanshi Food Street in the northeastern port city of Tianjin on Friday, January 25, 2008.

Restaurants displayed 532 dishes at stalls along a well-known dining street in the port city of Tianjin on Friday, to entice locals to buy them for their New Year's Eve dinners.

An Olympic-themed dish is displayed on Nanshi Food Street in the northeastern port city of Tianjin on Friday, January 25, 2008.

Many famous restaurants, such as Quanjude Roasted Duck and Go Believe, or Goubuli, Steam Bun put up temporary kitchen sheds along Nanshi Food Street in the northeastern city and cooked food on the spot.

Citizens could find out information about the various meals offered by the restaurants and take photos of them. Many were partucularly drawn to several Olympic-themed dishes. They later showed their photos to the various eateries to reserve their favorite dishes.

Restaurants display 532 dishes along Nanshi Food Street in the northeastern port city of Tianjin on Friday, January 25, 2008, to entice locals to buy them for their New Year's Eve dinner.

This year, New Year's Eve falls on February 6. It is customary on this night for Chinese families to come together to eat a celebratory dinner. But in recent years, more and more Chinese have been eating deluxe New Year's Eve meals in restaurants.

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Learn Chinese - Pictures of Kites

2009-01-07T09:17:00.001-08:00

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Pictures of Kites

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Pnyin - Peasants’ Paintings

2009-01-06T10:07:00.001-08:00

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Peasants’ Paintings

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Study Chinese - Exhibition of Chinese Shadow Puppetry

2009-01-05T07:09:00.001-08:00

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Exchange>Exhibition

Exhibition of Chinese Shadow Puppetry

Date of Shipment: 2007.6.

Total Packages: n/a

Time of Previous Exhibitions

Venue

Second half year of 2007

Chinese Cultural Center, Seoul, Korea

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Learn Chinese online - Kungfu Show: The Legend of Kungfu

2009-01-04T06:57:00.001-08:00

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Kungfu Show: The Legend of Kungfu

The average performer is only 17 years old; they are young martial arts talents from all over China. They imitate certain animals in fierce fighting, including frogs, tigers and snakes, and reveal the ancient art of shadow boxing. The show also promises a number of eye-popping stunts, like
smashing iron tablets over heads, and hitting people with thick wooden sticks. "

The Legend of Kungfu” was previewed in July 2004 and premiered on December 3, 2004. Up to now, the show has accomplished more than 2000 performances in the Beijing Red Theatre. It is still popular, boasting a 98%-full house every evening. Many visitors thought it was the unsurpassed show they
had seen in China. Mohamed Jaidah, a visitor from Qatar, came to see the show 3 nights running, and thought it was simply "a stunning experience."

In 2005, the show was inaugurated into ‘the National Instructional Index for Commercial Cultural Products of Performing Arts and Exhibitions of the Year’ by the Ministry of Culture of China. The Legend of Kungfu had its first North America tour from August 2005 to January 2006. During that
time, it played 150 performances in Vancouver, Toronto, Reno and other North American cities and won enormous audience admiration.

In 2007, the show reached two new international markets. In July, the company performed in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Russia. A tour of Japan followed in August, including Sapporo, Sendai, Osaka and Fukuoka. A second, five-city tour of Japan is planned for the spring of 2008.

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HSK - Jiang Weiling Wins Helsinki Award

2009-01-03T05:17:00.001-08:00

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Jiang Weiling Wins Helsinki Award

Chinese female painter Jiang Weiliing was awarded dual prizes for Best International Painter and Best Artwork at the Helsinki International Modern Art Expo.

The exhibition was held October 5th to 12th and attracted over 70 artists from 42 countries. Seven paintings of Jiang were placed at the center of the exhibition hall, which accommodated a large audience during the 7-day event.

Auspicious Cloud, 2004, Chinese Traditional Painting, 67cm×67cm

Born in 1954 in Kashgar, a city at the western end of China's Silk Road, Jiang has explored a unique grammar of traditional painting. Ever since she took up the brushes, she has drawn inspiration from the centuries' old legacy of ancient civilizations, especially from mural paintings and grotto
figurines.

Queen of Qiuzi Kingdom, Rice Paper and Color Ink.

Jiang impresses with her bold use of colors, mastery of lines, and strong personal style. "Her painting overflows with the rhythms of music and dance." said Mrs. Zhu Lichun, director of China Artists Association. "There is a deeply embedded culture in her work that can easily move the viewers."

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Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2009-01-01T17:59:00.001-08:00

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Guide to Chinese
Living in China

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Forum: ZDT Flashcards Forum 25th November 2007, 02:10 AM

Replies: 9

ZDT vs. Anki SRS

Views: 1,255

Posted By Luobot

Re: ZDT vs. Anki SRS

Just a first impression: ZDT has the advantage of ease of use, at least at first glance, and
it’s tailor made for Mandarin. Also, ZDT has many flashcard decks ready to go, which can be
viewed and...

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Learn mandarin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-24T05:13:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 23rd February 2008, 03:31 PM

Replies: 4

Translation Support Portal

Views: 288

Posted By trevelyan

Re: Translation Support Portal

Document deleting is now up and running.

You can delete previous translations on the same page that lets you "open" them.

Forum: Adsotrans.com Forum 20th February 2008, 12:13 PM

Replies: 4

Translation Support Portal

Views: 288

Posted By trevelyan

Translation Support Portal

Short ping about an experimental translation site I've just thrown up. This is very much in beta,
but I've already noticed it increase my translating speed and maintain consistent terminology
through...

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HSK Exam - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-23T05:18:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 3rd February 2005, 02:42 PM

Replies: 43

Why Do You Learn Chinese?(ple help me with the survey)

Views: 6,910

Posted By Claw

Original reason: So that I am able to talk to the...

Original reason: So that I am able to talk to the rest of my family. Current reason (though
original reason still applies): I find Chinese grammar and comparative linguistics so interesting
now that...

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HSK Exam - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-22T05:17:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 6th July 2004, 04:01 PM

Replies: 44

Poll: Why learning spoken Chinese as a foreigner is easy and hard

Views: 7,920

Posted By benotnobody

I don't know how it is in London, geraldc, but in...

I don't know how it is in London, geraldc, but in my school in Australia, there are three Chinese
classes: standard, accelerated and background. (Although I go to a private school; it might be a
bit...

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Learn Mandarin online - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-21T05:23:00.001-08:00

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Guide to Chinese
Living in China

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 27th May 2005, 07:34 PM

Replies: 38

dashan 大山, Igor(from taiwan) and any others who have disgustingly good chinese

Views: 8,318

Posted By daydreamer

I think 大山 is better. His spoken is even better...

I think 大山 is better. His spoken is even better than many Chinese people. He began to stay in
China in late 1980's.

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Learn Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-20T05:15:00.001-08:00

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Guide to Chinese
Living in China

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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: skylee

Forum: Speaking and Listening 7th April 2004, 12:10 PM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By skylee

Indeed it is. When watching CCTV dramas, I often...

Indeed it is. When watching CCTV dramas, I often find actors pronouncing the "w" almost biting
their low lips, so much so that the 問 in 我問你 almost sounds like "ven". I think this is
strange.

But I...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 30th March 2004, 07:40 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By skylee

Reading these posts, I have just discovered that...

Reading these posts, I have just discovered that I don't know how to speak Putonghua. :oops:

Forum: Speaking and Listening 29th March 2004, 07:27 AM

Replies: 51

how is wu pronounced?

Views: 5,601

Posted By skylee

Smoothie you have to show us the Chinese...

Smoothie you have to show us the Chinese character, or at least tell use what the word means,
before we could tell you how it is pronounced (see 889's post).

But you need to pronounce the "w" anyway.

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Chinese Studies - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-19T05:15:00.001-08:00

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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: HashiriKata

Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd February 2006, 03:10 PM

Replies: 53

为什么很多的汉语学习者在这里不用汉语?

Views: 6,947

Posted By HashiriKata

Then, you should have one less reasons to...

Then, you should have one less reasons to decline. Am I not right? :mrgreen:

Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st November 2005, 05:49 PM

Replies: 53

为什么很多的汉语学习者在这里不用汉语?

Views: 6,947

Posted By HashiriKata

Still do. It's one of the ways to keep my Chinese...

Still do. It's one of the ways to keep my Chinese from disappearing completely :mrgreen: .

Regarding having a sub-forum for Chinese, I'm not for or against it but by just trying to imagine
how it's...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 31st October 2005, 06:32 PM

Replies: 53

为什么很多的汉语学习者在这里不用汉语?

Views: 6,947

Posted By HashiriKata

Florazheng, There are 2 kinds of learners: 1....

Florazheng,
There are 2 kinds of learners:
1. 学习者：= (genuine) learners
2. 学者： = learners with the practice part (习) missing (ie. reluctant to post in Chinese).

And we've got both varieties on...

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Learn mandarin - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-18T05:12:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 28th March 2006, 09:25 AM

Replies: 61

most embarrassing moment while learning Chinese

Views: 17,258

Posted By Laska

I once asked my conservative Chinese...

I once asked my conservative Chinese father-in-law when he was sick whether or not he had eaten
"yaopian," but it came out as "yapian." He thought that was pretty funny.

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Chinese Class - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-17T05:09:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 6th July 2007, 01:38 AM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By yonitabonita

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Best to check that assuredness of yours then David, your irony was by far too subtle for me.

On that I can agree.

I think this thread's dead.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 10:48 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By yonitabonita

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

I think that's an unfair distortion of the meaning of the post.

In his own words:

I think Imron meant that 'language' is a tool for communication. Not that 'English' is 'just' a
tool for...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 5th July 2007, 05:21 PM

Replies: 62

Why do caucasians love English?

Views: 4,214

Posted By yonitabonita

Re: Why do caucasians love English?

Yep, agree with Heifeng. The whole of it.

I wonder what the OP would think of native speaking Chinese speaking English to native speaking
Chinese. I see a lot more of that go on frankly. Not when...

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HSK Exam - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-16T05:26:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th September 2004, 07:39 PM

Replies: 63

Practicing Chinese with Chinese is impossible!!!

Views: 9,598

Posted By carlo

I've been following some of the discussions on...

I've been following some of the discussions on this forum for a bit. It would be nice to have a
chat with Robert Ho Tung, the grandfather of Eric (see www.erichotung.com). I can only imagine
what the...

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Learning Chinese - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-15T05:13:00.001-08:00

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Search took 0.22 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: kdavid

Forum: Speaking and Listening 15th May 2007, 04:10 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By kdavid

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

"Does it work?" is a difficult question to answer. I think I better question would be "Can it
really help?" "Is it practical?" etc. I say this because even "the best" tools won't work via
osmosis....

Forum: Speaking and Listening 14th May 2007, 07:36 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By kdavid

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

The site has got a lot of potential, but I feel that recently they've been slow in responding and
reacting to the feedback regarding the new site, and therefore pushing away the very people
they're...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 10th May 2007, 12:56 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By kdavid

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Since ChinesePod's switch to V3 I've been skeptical to resubscribe, but I did it once again hoping
that the changes (for the worse) will be corrected. If they're not corrected by the end of this...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st December 2006, 02:44 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By kdavid

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

One more thing I forgot... you can sign up for a free 7-day Premium subscription without having to
use your credit card. You just need to give them your email address.

Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st December 2006, 02:43 PM

Replies: 63

Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

Views: 10,684

Posted By kdavid

Re: Chinesepod.com-Does it really work?

This depends on two things: what level you're currently at and what you want to get out of an
online study tool. My first month's subscription is almost out and I will certainly pay for
another...

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Learn Mandarin online - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-14T05:18:00.001-08:00

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Forum: Speaking and Listening 23rd October 2007, 07:35 AM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By roddy

Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Bizarre idea, but have you considered the possibility that some foreign women may also be learning
Chinese?

Forum: Speaking and Listening 10th February 2007, 09:05 AM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By roddy

Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Er, says who?

Steve, I'm not sure who you are and what you do but if you have a commercial product useful for
language learning and it's relevant to the discussion and of potential value to users...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 8th February 2007, 11:12 PM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By roddy

Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Moved the nascent Chinesepod discussion to here
(http://www. /showthread.php?t=15515).

Forum: Speaking and Listening 2nd February 2007, 01:23 PM

Replies: 71

Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Views: 9,086

Posted By roddy

Re: Steve Kaufmann - How good is he?

Come on folks, the guy's posting in the discussion - you could at least stop talking about him in
the third person :wink:

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Chinese Studies - Chinese Lesson

2008-12-13T01:12:00.001-08:00

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Search took 0.30 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: 赫杰

Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st February 2006, 03:20 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By 赫杰

I am sure there are some people here that could...

I am sure there are some people here that could answer this better than me. Knowing only the
obvious differences in regional dialects, I am not knowledgable enough to compare them to the
Wuhan...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 1st February 2006, 11:26 AM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By 赫杰

Thanks, I will 加油 I agree english is much harder...

Thanks, I will 加油

I agree english is much harder than chinese (especially since I don't SPEAK it much these
days...), though I get funny looks when I give such an opinion to the few foreigners I do...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 22nd January 2006, 08:53 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By 赫杰

Indeed, I am as white as they come...while maybe...

Indeed, I am as white as they come...while maybe a light brownish tan that never goes away (well I
guess I should be thankful for that)...but yes I am an ol' white boy.

I envy those who grew up with...

Forum: Speaking and Listening 21st January 2006, 06:49 PM

Replies: 77

which chinese dialect(s) do you like most?

Views: 8,451

Posted By 赫杰

Oh, yes it is really cool. It is so cool in fact...

Oh, yes it is really cool. It is so cool in fact that I really really really really really wish I
was a Singapore(an?) or a nationality with a similar background...I have meet many outstanding
people...

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Learn Chinese online - 一日万命 -

2008-12-11T09:09:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
一日万命
Home New Posts

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Page 1 of 3 1 23 >

Myriam -

If I say 一日万命 what'd be the first thing that comes to mind?

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skylee -

揚州十日 and 嘉定三屠. sorry but they are the first things that came to my mind.

fireball9261 -

Quote:

揚州十日 and 嘉定三屠. sorry but they are the first things that came to my mind.

Yah. Those phrases also come up in my mind! What does "一日万命" mean actually?

Myriam -

Quote:

Yah. Those phrases also come up in my mind! What does "一日万命" mean actually?

You tell me what those phrases mean first!

skylee -

揚州十日 = the 10-day massacre in Yangzhou in 1645

嘉定三屠 = the 3-day massacre in Jiading in 1645

OracleBone -

a Buddhist.

roddy -

Quote:

If I say 一日万命 what'd be the first thing that comes to mind?

My mind: Why not just tell us what you're trying to do so you can get the answer quicker?

fireball9261 -

roddy,

You are no fun!

Myriam -

Quote:

My mind: Why not just tell us what you're trying to do so you can get the answer quicker?

I got those responses pretty quick...

Quest -

Quote:

If I say 一日万命 what'd be the first thing that comes to mind?

"Myriam" came to my mind.

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Chinese Character - Random Post Office Question - Page 2 -

2008-12-10T09:26:00.001-08:00

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Random Post Office Question
Home New Posts

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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

heifeng -

we do? i've seen the water wheel thingy so we don't have to spit in the US, and in China i've seen
the cafeteria style method described above, but in BJ i mostly see the glue wheel method...

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Outofin -

I think they're just trying to save a few cents. You don't have lick pre-gummed stamps, but China
doesn't have them either.

But it's true too that we avoid licking. In many times I saw some TV news hostess licking paper
when they browse. A beauty, in public, licking paper. So unappropriate!

roddy -

Quote:

You don't have lick pre-gummed stamps, but China doesn't have them either.

Who's 'you'. You get lickable stamps in the UK, or at least you used to, haven't seen a UK stamp
for years, bar on envelopes.

Outofin -

sorry, typo. I meant "You don't have to", not "You don't have". I mean, people just peel the
stamps off without having to lick.

芳芳 -

Well, i really appreciate you to discuss that point now.

Christmas coming next month, my dear roomate and me were in a mood for sending Christmas. And she
has a huge family, a good bunch of friends, on my side I had quite a lot of people to write to
(hehe, i'm not that much a card nor Chritsmas person, but you don't have so often the occasion to
send Christmas cards from Urumqi right?).

So yesterday, we arrived to the post office with our 123 non pre-gummed envelopps, 5 rolls of
adesive tape in case the post-office won't close the envelops for us (didn't close the envelops in
advance because sometime, they want to open them before shipping to check whatever they want to
check), and our naive happyness at the idea of our friends receiving the postcards.

And with a stupid grin on their face, the post office employees told us that,yes, good thing we
didn't close them beore coming to the office, and haha, we have to close all the envelops by
ourselves, and no, no, we shall not use the tape we brought because it would have been too easy
and efficient, but use the glue jar with the stuff they call glue that doesn't stick, and yes it
took us ages because the evil stuff won't go out of the pot, then won't go on the appropriate
place on the envelop to contribute to the function of closing the envelop, and anyway, after 32",
the envelop you just closed pops up open because the glue is not strong enough to keep it closed,
but strong enough to keep two envelops you would have by mistake put too closed to each other
stuck together for ever, bah it's too bad those two envelops have to go to different destinations.
And the post officer with his smile from one ear to another "helping" us by carrying each "ready"
envelop from the gluing desk to the stamping desk, and coming back after 32" when the envelop has
poped up open.

But "When you're chewing life's gristle,
Don't grumble,
Give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best.
And...
Always look on the light side of life, badam, bada bada badaam"

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Learn Mandarin online - ZDT: Sound plugin problem -

2008-12-09T09:17:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: Sound plugin problem
Home New Posts

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soffi -

I am running Ubuntu 7.10, and ZDT 0.7.0. I cannot get the sound plugin to work, everytime I put
the plugin-files in my plugin dir the program cannot find anything when restarting the program.
every window has a error sign on it (see attached file). however if I remove the .jar files from
the plugin directory, it works perfectly again. i have tried with roddy and the sound_0.2.0 file
separately, and with both of them in the plugins dir at the same time. the same thing happens no
matter how I do it...

the same thing happened when I tried it with the previous version of zdt.

And also, off topic, how do I get the annotator not to annotate 的 to dí, but de? and 好
sometimes comes with the 4th tone instead of the 3rd. i cant find a way to change this.

really love the new version, specially the flashcards!

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bogleg -

Hi Soffi,

Can you delete the sound-0.2.0.jar file? It is no longer compatible with 0.7.0. This was the
original sound plugin and has since been replaced by the net.sourceforge.zdt.sound.adso plugin. I
have now removed this original sound plugin download from the site since it's confusing.

Regarding your other issue, its sort of a dictionary thing. In the cedict dictionary, those
characters you mentioned have multiple entries in the dictionary which you can see in the tooltip.
In the pinyin display though, it's just showing the first one it finds. I'm open to suggestions on
improvements the way it displays things though.

Chris

soffi -

ah, the other sound plug-in did the trick. thank you for the quick reply!

maybe a drop-down menu when you click a character/syllable in the annotator, where you can choose
the suitable pinyin? at the moment, the character 大 annotates as dài, which is hardly the most
common pronunciation. it's no biggie really, but it would be a nice future feature :P

BaiYuehan -

Hello

I'm struggling to install the adso sound plugin for ZDT 0.7.0. (running XP).

I've downloaded the zip file, extracted the following 4 files and placed them in ..Program
Files/zdt/plugins;

jl1.0.jar......................105,446............18/07/2007 15:24
mp3spi1.9.4.jar..........24,538..............18/07/2007 15:24
pinyin_sounds.jar.......7,344,480..........18/07/2007 15:24
tritonus_share.jar.......102,723.............18/07/2007 15:24

but ZDT fails to load them. They don't show in the Help-> About ZDT screen, or in Sound ->
Preferences.

I've also tried deleting the Workspace and Configuration folders in my user area folder, but still
no show.

Do I need to manually register them in some way ?

Thanks for any help...

jbradfor -

For the adso plugin, don't extract the files from the .jar. Just copy the .jar file as-is into the
plugins directory (leaving it as one file), restart zdt, and enable it in zdt via
windows->preferences->sound

BaiYuehan -

Success at last...thanks for that ! The file type when I downloaded was .zip, and I assumed I had
to extract them first. Just renamed to .jar and it's working fine now...

jbradfor -

Great! Always glad to help a brother. I assume your last name, Bai, is 白? That's mine too. So
that makes us brothers :-)

But it's weird that you d/l it as a zip file.

BaiYuehan -

Thanks 弟兄 (btw, my Chinese is about the same level as my Java at the moment, not v good).

Yes, some mysterious force changes the file types from .jar to .zip

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Chinese Online Class - Help with translation of Yu Dafu's essay -

2008-12-08T09:19:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Art and Literature
Help with translation of Yu Dafu's essay
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Paolo -

Hello everybody,

I need help with the translation of some parts of Yu Dafu's Reminiscences on Returning Home
(郁达夫, "还乡记"), which are still obscure to me even after asking a couple of mother
tongue teachers...

I have underlined the 3 weird parts: what looks like the Chinese transliteration of a foreign name
(is it?), the title of a work by Burns, and 4 characters I don't have a clue about (another
transliteration?). The beginning of the poem quoted is obviously from Burns' John Barleycorn, but
about the rest... no idea.

“恩斯来的那本《彭思生里参拜记》，你念到什么地方了？”

“三个东部的野人，
三个方正的男子，
他们起了崇高的心愿，
想去看看什，泻，奥夫，欧耳。”

Thanks a lot!

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roddy -

Did some searching and couldn't turn up a single thing. Were you told that the poem is the Burns
one, it doesn't look like it to me.

gato -

Quote:

想去看看什，泻，奥夫，欧耳

Are you sure that's not a typo (or a scanning error if you are reading an electronic version)?
Shouldn't “什" be "什么" or something along that line. I've never seen 什 and 泻 to
transliterate foreign names.

As for the poem, it looks like Burns' structure and Yu Dafu's words (野人 instead kings and so
forth).

Paolo -

Quote:

Were you told that the poem is the Burns one, it doesn't look like it to me.

I guess Yu is referring to some collected works by Burns or something like that: 彭思 is Burns
transliterated... maybe some early 20th century Chinese or Japanese edition I can't find anything
about.

Quote:

Are you sure that's not a typo (or a scanning error if you are reading an electronic version)?
Shouldn't “什" be "什么" or something along that line. I've never seen 什 and 泻 to
transliterate foreign names.

Yes, I've checked several versions (both digital and printed) and they all look like that... this
is typical Yu Dafu stuff none of my teachers and colleagues seems to have a clue about

gato -

An online version of the essay in case anyone is interested:

http://down.rzkfqzx.net/lib/wenxue/x...70/zgxd_16.htm
还乡记

Still can't figure who 恩斯来 could be, but according to baidu:
Joseph Fiennes = 约瑟夫 · 范恩斯来
Jeremy Irons = 杰瑞米 · 爱恩斯来

gato -

Maybe 奥夫 = of, 欧耳= all

"什，泻，奥夫，欧耳" = something of all

Or maybe it's just a joke non-sensical phrase considering the context.

Quote:

讲来讲去，去岁今年，总还是这几句话：

“世界真是奇怪，象这样轻薄的人，也居然能成中国的偶像的。”
“正唯其轻薄，所以能享盛名。”“他的著作是什么东西呀！连抄人家的著�
��还要抄错！”“唉唉！”
“还有××呢！比××更卑鄙，更不通，而他享的名誉反而更大！”
“今天在车上看见的那个犹太女子真好哩！”
“她的屁股正大得爱人。”
“她的臂膊！”
“啊啊！”
“恩斯来的那本彭思生里参拜记，你念到什么地方了？”“三个东部的野人�
��三个方正的男子，他们起了崇高的心愿，想去看看什，泻，奥夫，欧耳。��
�
“你真记得牢！”

象这样的毫无系统，漫无头绪的谈话，我们不谈则已，一谈起头，非要谈到�
��儡消尽，悲愤泄完的时候不止。

Paolo -

I'll be thinking about the "nonsense" option, maybe it's the right one in the light of the
context. Waiting (hopefully) for some more suggestions from the forum surfers, thanks roddy and
gato for your advice!

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Learning Mandarin - 你的英文讲得很好。。。。WOOPS - Page 2 -

2008-12-07T09:15:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
你的英文讲得很好。。。。WOOPS
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Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 34 > »

Lu -

Quote:

Sometimes I think I should have 哪里哪里stamped on my forehead

Slightly off-topic: I always (literary always) use 還差的遠啊 ('it's far from good'). Works
fine on the mainland as well, but in Taiwan it makes people almost fall over in awe. Maybe you can
give it a try when you get enough of the nali nali.

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gougou -

Quote:

in Taiwan it makes people almost fall over in awe

To stay off-topic: it has the same effect with Beijing cabbies.

imron -

Continuing off-topic: I typically use 跟你比还差点儿, which usually rates a laugh or two,
especially from anyone standing next to person who made the original comment.

billiardsmike -

Thanks for the suggestions. I egotistically thought that people laughed at me because I was so
clever in saying 哪里。However, my teacher told us today that this expression is about 20 years
out of date. I'll try your stand-bys.

adrianlondon -

Yeah, my 1970's Practical Chinese Reader is full of 哪里s and 还差得远呢s, but when I was
in Beijing I was told the correct response to praise is now simply 谢谢.

muyongshi -

Let's be fair and not forget the even more outdated 马马虎虎

imron -

Quote:

I was told the correct response to praise is now simply 谢谢.

The thing is, when people are commenting on how good my Chinese is (despite the reality), I don't
want to say thank you. Most of the time, what I really want to say is something along the lines of
stop patronising me, however that doesn't always go down particularly well. 跟你比还差点儿,
does a reasonably good job of conveying that sentiment, but does so in a light-hearted,
smart-alecky kind of way.

Qcash3 -

Quote:

Let's be fair and not forget the even more outdated 马马虎虎

When I was in high school my Chinese teacher swore by this phrase. When I first visited China in
2004 everyone laughed after I used this phrase, it wasn't until I returned to China in 2006 that I
figured why everyone was laughing at me . It seems that my teacher had not updated her lingo since
she came to the states 20+ years ago.....

adrianlondon -

Quote:

跟你比还差点儿

The grammar there is confusing me. Does it mean the same as 比你(还)差点儿.

muyongshi -

跟你相比还差得远

相比/比=比较

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Free Chinese Lesson - Strange 姓 (as in not too common) - Page 5 -

2008-12-06T09:18:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Society
Strange 姓 (as in not too common)
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Page 5 of 5 First < 34 5

skylee -

Quote:

(Or was this the surname of Wang Lihong's character in Se Jie?)

No. That is 鄺, a common surname.

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Chinese School - Trendy Chinese Vocab , who can understand them? - Page 2 -

2008-12-05T09:14:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Grammar and Vocabulary
Trendy Chinese Vocab , who can understand them?
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

somchai69 -

I have never heard of 牛逼 before. Ha ha ha. I agree that this thread is 真牛逼

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HSK Exam - old book about cursive characters/writing... -

2008-12-04T09:07:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
old book about cursive characters/writing...
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Radial -

I remember seeing several years ago a great book about chines cursive writing. This was an old
book... from the 20's or 30's that someone had scanned and put on the web.

I always wanted to go back and download it... but never managed too and now cannot find it. Do any
of you know about this book and how to find it?

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imron -

Is this what you were looking for? It would seem however, that these photos have been made
private/removed.

roddy -

If it is, drop geek_frappa a line, he's still active and could maybe make the scans available
again.

imron -

I dropped him a line just after I posted.

imron -

Just got an email from Geek Frappa. The book is now back online.

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Study Chinese - 3G Phone Service in China? - Page 3 -

2008-12-03T09:21:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
3G Phone Service in China?
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badr -

Indeed gato,

I just tested that by connecting my Sony Ericsson ( just GPRS, not EDGE) to my mac.. after 15mn of
browsing, my mobile was completely out of credit!! !Actually, it was deep in the negative
territories ( -25RMB)

ouch!

I'm gonna sign up for China Unicom's CDMA modem thingy tomorrow 800RMB for 6 months of unlimited
connection anywhere in China

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roddy -

Ouch - particularly worrying that they let you go into negative territory, you could quite easily
run up nasty bills if you didn't realize you had windows update running in the background or
something.

/ goes to check his new phone's podcast software isn't automatically updating.

ipsi() -

It'd technically be 12RMB/minute, but only if you're using the full speed of the connection, and
if you're doing that a lot, I'd be pretty surprised. I also reckon you could easily keep it under
2G a month, provided that you're not doing silly things like using it as a replacement for a fixed
line internet connection.

But yeah, I also had bad experiences with running into the negatives when I was in China with my
680... . Didn't help that I couldn't understand what the hell the automated voice was saying when
I tried to make a call.

And China's still cheaper than NZ, where it's 65￥/MB...

cdn_in_bj -

China Mobile has started limited public trials of their 3G service (TD-SCDMA protocol) in select
cities:

http://www.china.org.cn/business/200...t_13793648.htm

Shadowdh -

Yeah I saw that on the news channel this morning... they were all giddy showing video calls and
watching tv on phones... I thought it was more than 8 cities though (although to be honest I was
not paying too much attention and only glanced at the box which showed which cities it was going
to be in)... cant wait to get to Beijing next week and give it a whirl...

imron -

Quote:

cant wait to get to Beijing next week and give it a whirl...

Will you be buying a TD-SCDMA phone just to give it a whirl?

Shadowdh -

Ah so thats the catch is it, I have a Kaiser/tytnII/VarioIII that does cdma and gsm and 3g, umts,
hsdpa etc but will it not work? So its not like the uk where you can pick up 3g where its
broadcast then? I thought it might... sigh, showing my technamalogical ignorance again...

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

So its not like the uk where you can pick up 3g where its broadcast then?

Right now they're only testing the home-grown TD-SCDMA standard, so your phone won't work. Wait a
year and maybe they'll have W-CDMA in operation here, in which case you might be able to use
yours. But even then it'll also depend on which W-CDMA frequencies they settle on.

ipsi() -

I hope they put up a nice, *globally standard* 3G network, as buying another phone just for the
benefits of 3G seems a little harsh.

imron -

Quote:

I hope they put up a nice, *globally standard* 3G network

Nope, 3g is even more fragmented than 2g (and 2.5g).

Quote:

Wait a year and maybe they'll have W-CDMA in operation here

By which time, the rest of the world will be starting on 4g

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Chinese Studies - Accessing Cash - Page 2 -

2008-12-02T09:18:00.001-08:00

> Wikis > Living in China > Accessing Cash
Accessing Cash's Discussion
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cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

One Bank account may be able to have two credit cards linked to that bank account. Most Chinese
credit cards work like western debit cards where Chinese customers must first deposit a set amount
of money the minimum is usually 6,000 Yuan and then the credit card can withdraw from from that
account. You still need to pay back money to return the level to 6,000 yuan each month or you will
pay interest on the difference.

This is not always the case, I would change the wording from "most" to "some".

Quote:

Credit cards usually have a pin number that you will need to input. The exception to this in the
Merchant's Bank, which simply requires the signature.

Again, this is not always the case. If you are making a payment using a domestic credit card that
doesn't have a PIN, you can enter a bunch of '0's. Of course, it is safer to assign a PIN to the
card.

Anyways, this is good info - feel free to update the wiki page.

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muyongshi -

It's a wiki for a reason...help out and do it yourself!

imron -

Quote:

You still need to pay back money to return the level to 6,000 yuan each month or you will pay
interest on the difference.

They charge you interest on your own money?!

shibole -

Quote:

Quote:
You still need to pay back money to return the level to 6,000 yuan each month or you will pay
interest on the difference.
They charge you interest on your own money?!

That's called "secured credit". Normally secured credit is secured with collateral like your house
or something, but in the US at least they have these "secured credit" credit card accounts for
losers who have such a bad credit history (multiple bankruptcies probably) that nobody will give
them a credit card. By depositing money with someone these people can get a credit card and start
building some amount of positive credit history even if it's silly that they're borrowing cash
against their own cash.

So this sounds like cash-secured credit card accounts in the US except just applied to the general
population since there's little-to-no credit reporting going on....

simonlaing -

Yeah, I think everyone has secured Credit, paying interest on your own money. (Credit card
companies complain that almost every one in China pays their bill on time meaning the interest
doesn't get charged much.)

I think it is because the record keeping across province lines are very bad.

I have heard stories of scrupuless business people with a famous name, going from one province to
another and taking massive loans for building a new building and then skipping town . They don't
have a system that can be accessed by other provinces. This problem is made worse by the fact that
lots of CHinese people have the same first and last names.

Shenzhen was experimenting with a credit tracking system I last heard.

When people do business they usually call their paid off/ relative police officer who does a
criminal background check which is nationalized. These don't usually have civil crimes like not
paying a loan. It will have things like marriages, divorces and Kids though.

I have friends at Unicom and Telecom who do this service for jealous husbands inpecting the new
numbers in there wives/ girlfriends cellphones. Men don't usually let the wives check their cell
phones. Go figure.

People also use guanxi business networks to not get cheated, but if you're doing cross province
business it can be harder..
have fun,
Simon

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

Yeah, I think everyone has secured Credit, paying interest on your own money.

Again, I'd like to point out that this generalization is inaccurate.

I do agree with your other points regarding poor credit history tracking.

simonlaing -

hey hey Mr. CDN,

If you know of a bank in China that provides credit cards without a deposit , back it up, tell me
the bank so I can sign up with them.

Also confirm that there are no other circumstances like there is not deposit but the credit is
backed up by a house or Business account with a minimum balance. (Which would make it basically
the samething)

I don't profess to know everything about China but I went to a bunch of Banks asking about it and
couldn't find one.
So details please Mr. Cdn.

have fun,
Simon

md1101 -

wow those 'secured credit' credit cards sound strange. the idea of credit cards is to encourage
people to spend money, hence incur a debt and make them pay off interest. The interest is worth it
because you got something you otherwise couldnt. but this other system does the opposite! these
cards will actually discourage spending. im no economist but i guess its probably a good thing for
the chinese economy. should help keep down inflation seeing as the economy is growing so rapidyly
anyway.

cdn_in_bj -

Hi Simon,

BOC and ICBC both offer "true" credit cards. See:

http://www.boc.cn/en/common/third.js...=1099533459100

Quote:

BOC credit card is a double-currency credit card according with international standard, designed
for global usage. You can pay with it within your line of credit, and enjoy as long as 50 days of
interest-free repayment period without prior deposit.

http://www.icbc.com.cn/e_icbcmodule/...BCredit%2BCard

I believe those cash-secured credit cards that you've described are known as "quasi credit cards".
In effect these are just debit cards that work on the credit card network:

http://www.icbc.com.cn/e_icbcmodule/...BCredit%2BCard
http://www.boc.cn/en/common/third.js...=1099533515100

simonlaing -

Hi CDN,

I will look into the BOC credit card, My fiancee had an international card with them to use in
Europe and it still had the minimu deposit issue. So I will check it out ,perhaps there are lots
of Euro credit cards.
have fun,
Simon

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Speak Chinese - Who feels like reading about enameling? -

2008-11-23T09:12:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Who feels like reading about enameling?
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grilkip -

Hi.

I don't speak Chinese, I work for a Dutch enameling company. I was browsing the co's website and
noticed a Chinese flag linking to a Chinese version of the site.

Considering the reigning stupidity in my company , I am curious as to how good the Chinese
translation is. Good? Laughable?

So any chinese readers who feel like looking at it, I'd like to hear your judgement.

www.ferrotechniek.com/cn/

Here's a page in English and Chinese talking about heat exchanger plates:
English version
Chinese version

Thanks

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Xiao Kui -

I don't know anything abt heat exchanger plates, so I can't judge the accuracy of the translation,
but the Chinese itself seems okay to me. (I'm not a native speaker)

trien27 -

I would say it's Chinese translation is 90 -100% accurate.
In other words, Perfect. Or so I thought, until I right-clicked on the Chinese page and clicked on
Properties, it said the text language is in Dutch, instead of Chinese! In English, it said "sister
company", but in Chinese, it said "brother company"?! I guess your company can't tell their sister
from their brother?!

heartless -

The Chinese translation is very good. It is accurate, brief but to the point and very
professional(as to commercial adverstisement text). There is only one small thing that is not so
satisfactory. The Framework of the Kyoto treatment usually is rendered in Chinese as
"京都议定书" rather than "京都条约" as the website translates, which I think must be very
minor defect. Other than that, it is perfect.

grilkip -

Thanks all!

I was hoping for a smoking gun but I guess there isn't one.

China is a big market for us so I guess it's only good.

Thanks folks for bothering!

heifeng -

i could only spend a minute or two looking at this, but in addition to the issue of the kyoto
protocal framework above, there is a very obvious grammatical mistake here:

http://www.ferrotechniek.com/cn/spec_exchangers.html
由Ferro
Techniek镀搪瓷的换热器板片总面积超过370万平方米，相当于580个足球场面积��
�和还多！
I'll let other board members figure out how to correct it b/c I am in a hurry today. have fun

Other than this once upon a time I worked primarily with heat exchangers and will look through the
site more...my impression is the chinese is passable, but maybe if you look at an actual Chinese
company's websites the wording seems slightly more formal (flowery, or full of b-s...you can pick
one of these adjective...).
But with most things everything is a work in progress, your company can slowly improve it.

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Chinese Studies - Hello... Needed help identifying something... -

2008-11-22T09:25:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Hello... Needed help identifying something...
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cmazzagatti -

I've had this in my closet for years and haver never been able to properly identify it. There's
another one to the set, and I have NO idea what the heck it is. It looks like a dragon
encompassing a ball in it's flame breath.

Here's a picture: http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000393bf6.jpg

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studentyoung -

Quote:

I've had this in my closet for years and haver never been able to properly identify it. There's
another one to the set, and I have NO idea what the heck it is. It looks like a dragon
encompassing a ball in it's flame breath.

Ah ~ ~ ! It is some kind of decoration. There are three lions on it. Two big one are play with a
ball, while a small one is watching them.

Thanks!

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Chinese Studies - Favorite Chinese food - Page 3 -

2008-11-21T09:12:00.001-08:00

> Chinese Culture > Food
Favorite Chinese food
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Page 3 of 4 < 12 3 4 >

fireball9261 -

Hi nitnoy, the Suji you mentioned, if it'a by product of the gluten, it's actually called "麵筋"
(mian4 jin). It is made from wheat flour and high in protein (it was washed somehow to get rid of
most of the starch in the wheat). You can find in in some of the Shanghainess Restaurants out side
of China as an appetizer cold dish. I can get them in Chinese grocery markets in Los Angeles
without problems. I believe you could get them in other major Western cities as well (I think).

The Suji I know (made by my mom's Shanghainess friend who was born in late Qing dynasty) was from
the delicate Tofu skins. They (the Tofu skins) had to sprinkle on seasonings and some finely
chopped stuff (I forgot what they are), wrapped together, and then tied tightly and probably
pressed down by something for a long time. Then steamed and served in cut slices. Their texture
have the texture of a real tender chicken or firm fish. They are excellent to make mock chicken
and mock fish. This type of Suji, you have to find in people's homes and no where else I know --
Maybe because it's just too difficult and time consuming to make. I haven't had it for almost 30
years since my mom's friend passed away.

I also like Tofu hua, especially the sweet ones with added fried peanuts. I know it's sort of
weird, but it tastes good. Definitely xiao long bao and Northern style of soup filled baozi. I
tried to make those without too much success.

Green onion pan cakes are also my favorite. Fortunately, I learned from my brother how to make
them in childhood. When I came to U.S. without the proper Chinese restaurants at that time, I was
able to make them myself. Later, I could buy the frozen ones in Chinese grocery markets in LA. You
just need to fried them yourself. Again, I think you could get at least the frozen ones in most
Western cities' Chinese grocery stores.

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owshawng -

Taiwanese Beef noodle Soup, Salt and Pepper Pork, Sweet and Sour Cabbage, there are so many yummy
choices.

nitnoy -

Hi Fireball, thanks for highlighting the suji and yes in Singapore, we do have those mock items
made from delicate tofu skins and one of the best know varity will the mock goose, it's served
deep fried and topped over fried noodle or "bee hoon" and other mock items and doused with curry
gravy
well i must admit that in Singapore, there are not much people who really make the mock items at
home anymore or even really know how to make it at all.

your tofu hua with fried peanuts sounds good to me, locally we have those tofu hua with braised
peanuts but not fried peanuts, maybe should try it
ps: tried ice-cream with fried peanuts, it's really good

nitnoy -

Hi Shawn, Taiwanese Beef noodle Soup is good, tried it in Taiwan Taoyuan in June, it's really
yummy, it goes well with some pickled cabbage, and also braised aubergine(egg plant)
ps: now my saliva is really dripping, slurp

fireball9261 -

I shouldn't be reading this thread with empty stomach. I think I need to go to my Chinese grocery
store and see if I could find my favorite Chinese foods.

cdn_in_bj -

My favourite food, believe it or not, is 肥肠

LaoZhang -

I could eat 羊肉串 every day. In fact, I ate it about 5 times a week when I was in China last
year. Plenty of stories of people using "questionable" ingredients, but I don't care. Maybe
老鼠肉 isn't so bad after all.

When I returned to the states, I was craving it, I couldn't find it around herd, and out of
desperation, experimented and found that you can make it easily yourself.

Ingredients:
1. Nice big hunk of boneless lamb shoulder
2. Bamboo skewers
3. Cumin, crushed or powered
4. Salt
5. Chili flakes

Steps
1. Cut up meat into good sized cubes, 3/4 inch works good
2. Put meat on skewers. Leave at least 1/4 inch between pieces
3. Put under broiler until brown (~7 minutes my toaster oven, top rack)
4. LIBERALLY sprinkle on a mix of cumin, salt, and chili (I like about a 40/30/30 ratio,
respectively).
5. Turn skewers over and broil until brown (about another 5 minutes or so)
6. Liberally sprinkle on the mix on this side.

You don't have to soak the bamboo skewers because the broiler doesn't get as hot as wood coals.

imron -

You should open up a 羊肉串店

LaoZhang -

The though has crossed my mind...

Set up a little portable near a college campus, import some 燕京啤酒....

cdn_in_bj -

Thanks for the recipe, that looks delicious! Does it taste different from the coal cooked version?

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Study Chinese - ZDT: flashcard -

2008-11-20T08:59:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: flashcard
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xtenhome -

why is there no way to automatically advance the flashcards ?

If there is I am sorry it is not obvious. I want the cards to advance automatically not to have to
keep pushing the button

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Chinese Tutor - Cantonese Grammatical Particles (in Spoken Cantonese 粵語),and some off the topic stuff -

2008-11-19T09:14:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Cantonese Grammatical Particles (in Spoken Cantonese 粵語),and some off the topic stuff
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Xi'Er Dun -

Can someone (ie. a Cantonese Native Speaker) explain grammatical particles used in Spoken
Cantonese 粵語 as it is written, and their usage. I have seen written Spoken Cantonese in
magazines from Hong Kong 香港 and would like to be able to read more.
Some articles in Hong Kong magazinese are written in Spoken Cantonese but most in Standard
PuTongHua 普通話 but in Traditional Characters 繁體.

I have seen articles where [乸]﹐ [咗]﹐[啲]﹐[哋]﹐[冇]﹐[係]﹐ [嚟]﹐ are used
quite frequently.

By the way, I have seen in the Kangxi Zidian 康熙 these two Hanzi 漢字 [吔] and [吀]
I believe that [吀] was the Chữ Nôm [宁字（one character) 喃] (Chu*~ No^m is your
computer can't see Vietnamese) used for the "xin" in [Xin Chào -- 吀嘲]. I am still not sure
of the definition and usage of [吔]. I have also seen that the Chữ Nôm (Chu Nom) for
người (ngu*o*`i)--meaning nationality, person, looked like a cross between 人 and 得 (but
得 without itsㄔradical).

And lastly, if there is a Korean Hanja 한 자 漢字 expert on this forum, could they explain the
concept and historical usage of Gukgyeol (kwukyel) 국열 Hanja Characters, for example the one
[朩 -- 둥 dung (Mandarin: deng3)--meaning: rank, grade].
I know I probably have anyone who is reading this baffled, also I have really strayed off the
original topic of Spoken Cantonese, sorry.

謝謝您

Xi ' Er Dun 希爾頓 from Australia 澳洲

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Quest -

[乸]: grown female / wife (disrespectful)
[咗]: past particle 了
[啲]: plural marker 些
[哋]: plural marker 们
[冇]: 无、没有
[係]: 是
[嚟]: 来

Can't help you with the others.

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Chinese language - Horrible Translation - Page 3 -

2008-11-18T09:32:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Horrible Translation
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3

muyongshi -

Quote:

You may offend certain people otherwise.

Are you being facetious??? Because there is no way that I can offend someone by saying a normal
word like 短处 or would you care to elaborate more?

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skylee -

For someone who has a 五短身材, the word 短處 might be offensive.

David Huo -

Hey guys, remember they were in a conversation.

I'd rather say: 长这么高，最大的麻烦是什么？

LilyXu -

hehe~~i think she just made up the word together. it's completely not right.

"What's the worst thing about being so tall?"--长这么高最大的不便之处是什么？

I'm going to be an interpreter(part-time job) of EU-Chengdu SMEs Business Matchmaking &Cooperation
Incubation 2007 for 2 days next month. I hope I won't make such silly mistakes like this. LOL

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Chinese Pinyin - help choosing best school -

2008-11-17T09:11:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
help choosing best school
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alisoncita -

Hello all,
I am about to embark on what I hope will be the adventure of a lifetime, and go to work in China
(Beijing) as a Teacher. I have been offered so many jobsm but don't want to accept something below
standard, as I have 11 years experience and expect to fond a good school. So far, the only
interestinf offer I have got is from Languagelink in Beijing, where they offer 12000 RMB a month.
If anyone knows of this school or could give me any informationabout other well paid
insititutions, I'd be really grateful. Thanks all, Alison

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simonlaing -

Hi Alison,

If you have experience and a teaching certificate you should apply to international schools around
China. There's ones in Beijing, Shanghai, qingdao, Suzhou, Nanjing, and more.

If you have a teaching degree you can earn huge bucks like 25,000 RMB starting a month. (Yes a
westerner salary in China.)
You will just teach foreign kids but, it will still have lots of time for trips, learning Chinese
if you wish and learning about China.

Have fun,
Simon

Genosha -

Hi Alison
I'm sorry, I've been in Beijing for a year now and I've never heard of Language Link. I did see a
post from someone else the other day. They were recommending it as a good school to go to. Not
sure if that's good enough for you

Anyway, I have a brief list of schools in Beijing here at www.geocities.com/steppingeast/

It's not the greatest list in the world, but to anyone who knows anything about schools in China
please fill in the form and lets get the information out there! The biggest problem about being a
Teacher in China is the lack of info! So it's up to us teachers to share with each other and
spread the word.

Also Alison, once you arrive, please visit the site and let us know what language link is like

Thanks so much.
Mark

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Learn Mandarin online - Recording Chinese Lectures: Recording Device & Speech to Text Query -

2008-11-16T09:19:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Recording Chinese Lectures: Recording Device & Speech to Text Query
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tongtaitai -

Hi!

I'm about to start a chinese medicine degree course at BUCM (taught in Chinese), and am concerned
that I won't be able to keep up with note taking in class. Does anyone have any tips or
information on the following:

1) Recommendations for digital recording devices e.g. using ipod, or Olympus/Sony devices to
record lectures. I currently have access to an 20GB Photo iPod, but would be ready to purchase an
Olympus D-50 Digital Voice Recorder or similar if this gets the job done better.

2) Speech to text software - I have no experience of this sort of software, so any help would be
very much appreciated. I'm looking for something that would be able to to take the recording of my
lectures (given by various teachers), and turn it into text.

Thanks in advance,

Angharad

Edit:

Please see the following:

http://www. /showth...726#post120726

-Wushijiao

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Chinese Tutor - help in translation -

2008-11-15T09:16:00.001-08:00








  > Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
help in translation
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 veena_barretto -

Hi,

can you please translate the following for me . i had orrded something but i got a reply from
chinese.... i need to reply soon but i cant understand the mail.... pls help


ã€HD-295ã€‘[TVBç»å…¸æ€€æ—§][1986å¹´å‡ºå“][ç¥žå‰‘é­�
��åˆ€][å›½è¯­][40é›†]æ¬§ç‘žä¼Ÿ/å®¹æƒ
é›¯/åŒºä¼ŸéºŸ/é»„å…æ/è”¡å˜‰åˆ©/å´èŒœè–‡/çŽ‹æ�
��æ˜Ž/åˆ˜ç¢§ä»ª/å¼
ç¾Žæ™º/é»Žæ±‰æŒ/æ¢é¸¿åŽ/éªã€€é›„/æŽé¾™åŸº/ä»
™æœæ‹‰/å•æœ‰æ…§ã€€/ç§¦ã€€æ²›/åˆ˜å…†é“­/æ¢æ
´åŽ/é™ˆè£å³»/é©¬æ…§çŽ²/æ›¾ã€€æ±Ÿ/æœ±é“å’Œ/é™�
�ä¸­åš/å¶å¤©è¡Œ/é²ã€€æ–¹/é™ˆé›ªå„¿/ç™½æ–‡å½ª
4HDVD [å®¶ç”¨ç¢Ÿæœºå¯çœ‹] ä»·æ ¼ï¼š40å…ƒ/å¥—
æµ·å¤–æ™®é€šèˆªç©ºé‚®è´¹ï¼š200
æ€»å…±ï¼š240å…ƒï¼ˆäººæ°‘å¸ï¼‰

ä½
å¯ä»¥é€šè¿‡è¥¿è”æ±‡æ¬¾ç»™æˆ‘ä»¬ä¹Ÿå¯ä»¥é€šè�
�‡ä½ é‚£è¾¹çš„é“¶è¡Œç›´æŽ¥è½¬å¸
> åˆ°æˆ‘ä»¬çš„ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œä¸Šæ¥ã€‚
>
> æ±‡æ¬¾æ–¹å¼ä¸€ï¼š
> å›½å¤–ç”¨æˆ·è¯·ç”¨è¥¿è”å›½é™…æ±‡æ¬¾
> è¯¦ç»†è¯·æŸ¥é˜…www.westernunion.com
> è´Ÿ è´£ äººï¼šé™†æ˜¥ï¼ˆLu Chunï¼‰
è”ç³»ç”µè¯ï¼š+86-010-86538052
> åœ°ã€€ã€€å€ï¼šä¸­å›½åŒ—äº¬å¸‚æµ·æ·€ï¼ˆHaidian
District,Beijing,Chinaï¼‰
>
>
> æ±‡æ¬¾æ–¹å¼äºŒï¼š
>
> ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œ
> æŠ˜å·ï¼š4020200-0188-071757-2
> å¡å·ï¼š4563510100863558536
> å§“åï¼šå•†ç«‹å²—
>
å¼€æˆ·è¡Œ:ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡ŒåŒ—äº¬åˆ†è¡Œè¥¿å•æ”¯è¡Œ
>
è¯´æ˜Žï¼šä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œå¯ä»¥ç›´æŽ¥æŽ¥å—æµ·å¤–å¤�
��å¸æ±‡æ¬¾
> ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œçš„è‹±æ–‡å¸å·æ˜¯ï¼š
> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2



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 imron -

This tool can be used to convert garbage characters into the correct Chinese encoding so that it
can be displayed correctly. For your email, it produced the following output:



Quote:

【HD-295】[TVB经典怀旧][1986年出品][神剑魔刀][国语][40集]欧瑞伟/容�
雯/区伟麟/黄允材/蔡嘉利/吴茜薇/王敏明/刘碧仪/�
美智/黎汉持/梁鸿华/骏　雄/李龙基/仙杜拉/吕有慧　/秦　沛/刘兆铭/梁洁华/
陈荣峻/马慧玲/曾　江/朱铁和/陈中坚/叶天行/鲍　方/陈雪儿/白文彪 4HDVD
[家用碟机可看] 价� �：40元/套
海外普通航空邮费：200
总共：240元（人民币）

� 可以通过西联汇款给我们也可以通过� 那边的银行直接转帐
> 到我们的中国银行上来。
>
> 汇款方式一：
> 国外用户请用西联国际汇款
> 详细请查阅www.westernunion.com
> 负 责 人：陆春（Lu Chun） 联系电话：ó010-86538052
> 地　　址：中国北京市海淀（Haidian District,Beijing,China）
>
>
> 汇款方式二：
>
> 中国银行
> 折号：4020200-0188-071757-2
> 卡号：4563510100863558536
> 姓名：商立岗
> 开户行:中国银行北京分行西单支行
> 说明：中国银行可以直接接受海外外币汇款
> 中国银行的英文帐号是：
> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2

It's confirmation of an order you placed for the tv series 神剑魔刀. It's 40 rmb for the DVDs,
and 200 rmb for the postage, which is being sent by ordinary airmail. 240 rmb is ~US$30

It lists two methods for paying. Method one is to pay by western union and is for use by foreign
customers. Considering it's being sent by international airmail, I'll assume this is what you'll
need to use. The details of the person you need to send it to are:
Name: Lu Chun (Note, the surname is Lu, and the given name is Chun).
Contact Phone：010-86538052
Address: Haidian District, Beijing, China.










 veena_barretto -

thanks.... so if western union

can u plls translate the details of how and whom to send the money through western union...
i think the other mode is through Demand draft right.

please transalte the details and let me know...so tht i can send the dd......... i will be really
thankful to u.










 imron -

I gave the details for western union in my post above, or rather, they were the only details
provided. I've never used western union so I'm not sure what other details they require.

The other method is bank transfer, and is the same as what the person wrote at the very bottom:

> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2

The Chinese also lists a card number: 4563510100863558536 I don't know if that will help.












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HSK Exam - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 9 -

2008-11-14T09:23:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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Page 9 of 11 First < 78 9 1011 >

braveb -

What do you mean by gutted? By this do you mean the book is not going to be published? If so, then
where did you get this information?

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m.ellison -

I think some of us are getting a bit impatient... wait a bit, they are working on it, it will come
out. Books take time to get together, maybe six months from final manuscript until it reaches the
bookshop.

NickyR -

Sorry, that was not a very clear post.

I was just gutted that it's not going to be ready for a while. Am definitely one of the
"impatient" ones!

Nicky

ABCinChina -

Seems like this book is going to be very good in helping to remember Hanzi. I think this book is
better suited for people who can already recognize and read some characters, but do not know how
to write.

Does anyone know if this book will be available in China?

m.ellison -

Has anyone looked at
http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chine...6652582&sr=8-1

Zhang -

OK now im really pissed....I was hoping to get this one done and dusted before the end of the
current Uni semester, now its looking like not even gonna be able to get my hands on the book.

Volapuk49 -

The books are to be published by the University of Hawaii Press.

I just contacted them and have been told the following:

The manuscripts for both the simplified and traditional characters are currently
undergoing extramural review. If they are accepted for publication by
the editorial board, the books might be available as early as July or
August of 2008.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.

kumori -

Thanks for the update Volapuk49! God I wish they would hurry up and publish it.... "extramural
review", phew, what a joke; it's Heisig for crying out loud, his work is beyond contempt!

Just publish it Hawaii! Do it now!

m.ellison -

I am about to start a new thread for Matthews and Matthews, Learning Chinese Characters -- it
should be of interest to anyone reading this thread. (But it deserves its own thread).

KONDDE -

PROGRESS REPORT (5 May, 2008): The book is currently with the University of Hawai'i Press, where
it is being proofread in preparation for publication

from:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/...0Hanzi%201.htm

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Speak Chinese - Tsinghua University Feb 2008 start date? + other practical questions xie xie!! - Page 3 -

2008-11-13T09:18:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
Tsinghua University Feb 2008 start date? + other practical questions xie xie!!
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3

Romana -

Thanks Aziza and dedsall78,

I guess I'll pay it with the tuition then, since I'm short of money now..

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Learning Mandarin - IUP and Princeton in Beijing - Writing Characters Required? -

2008-11-12T09:18:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
IUP and Princeton in Beijing - Writing Characters Required?
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myann23 -

Hey fellows,

I've been in China for a little over three months now having been studying at TLI in Beijing for 2
months and now in Dalian for a semester at DUT here along with continuing at TLI's Dalian location
(albeit with much less hours per week). I've focused on listening and speaking my first two months
here and a few weeks ago I've just started to learn characters (read, not write).

I plan on applying to PIB and IUP hopefully in the future, but I want to know how much they stress
writing characters. Do you need to be able to write characters to get into the program and
complete it, or is just reading fine? As I need to learn Chinese for professional reasons, I don't
really need to learn how to write so I tshould learn a lot quicker. These programs seem like ideal
bootcamps for learning Chinese, but I'm not sure I could attend if I don't learn how to write.

Aside from that question, do you think 3 hours a day 5 days a week of 1-on-1's for 2 months, and
then subsequently 4 months of university classes in Dalian supplemented by 6 hours a week of
private tuition be able to bring me up to the level of Chinese required by these programs?

Thanks for any assistance. I plan on writing my full review of TLI Wangfujing later today.

Mike

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Long Pan -

Is what they talk about in this article in relation with what you want to do; if so it might
interest you.

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Learn Mandarin online - Search By Handwriting Recognition -

2008-11-11T09:06:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Search By Handwriting Recognition
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imcgraw -

I'm wondering if are many online sites that allow you to search for characters via handwriting
recognition... using the mouse. I'm not fortunate enough to own a tablet PC or a PDA. I know about
http://www.nciku.com/, but sometimes the connection is spotty from my house. Are there others?
Thanks.

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zhwj -

What sort of OS are you using? Microsoft's IME comes with a handwriting input tool.

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HSK - I Hate Hanzi -

2008-11-10T09:13:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
I Hate Hanzi
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Page 1 of 8 1 23 > »

sthubbar -

As Gato mentioned here I'm a little stressed out lately.

First let me answer the obvious question: "If I hate them so much, why am I studying them?" Well,
it turns out that I really enjoy speaking Mandarin and I am convinced that if I want to progress
beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced to learn to read so I have no other choice
than to endure the torture of learning this ridiculous writing system.

Here is why I hate Hanzi.

They are not beautiful and if they are that's a bad thing.

The purpose of a written language is to convey a specific meaning to the reader, they are not
paintings. If ten people look at a beautiful painting it is likely that there will be ten
different meanings that will be ascribed to the painting. If I write an email to 10 friends and
say "Let's meet at 8pm Friday, outside the movie theater." I sure as heck hope there are not 10
different interpretations.

Furthermore, the more intricate or beautiful a script the harder it is to get the meaning. Look at
this text you are currently reading. Is it in an intricate calligraphic, brushed beautiful script
or is it in some more utilitarian script? I would bet that about 98% or more of the people reading
this are using a utilitarian script. The fancy scripts are only used for short passages where
there is little meaning being conveyed and it is more of a painting.

Hieroglyphics are beautiful because I'm not trying to understand their meaning, I just enjoy their
beauty.

Learning them is a painful processes of rote memorization

I have seen no evidence that there is a logical basis to the formation of the characters. Of
course there is some logic in trying to guess the meaning of some of the characters, but I would
say at best that is limited to 60% of the characters.

Furthermore, I see there are four facets to learning a character: Meaning, writing, pronunciation,
and tone. For me, the two most important are the pronunciation and the tone. I know of no system
that can make it systematic to learn the pronunciation and tones of 3000 characters. As far as my
understanding, Remembering the Kanji (RTK), is only concerned with using mnemonics to learn the
meaning and how to write the characters and I consider those the two least important aspects of
characters.

The more one learns the harder it becomes.

Unlike many other areas of learning where the more one learns the easier it becomes, with
characters it is just the opposite. As more and more characters are learned they start to appear
similar to previously learned characters. Some of the time they have a component or radical that
is the same, some of the times they look very similar but have a subtle difference.

With this newly learned character that looks like a previous character, there are six possible
pronunciations for this characters and there is no method to remember what it is without rote
memorization. Here are the possibilities of how to pronounce a new character that looks like a
previous character, from easiest to remember to hardest:

Same pronunciation, same tone
Same pronunciation, different tone
Similar pronunciation, same tone
Similar pronunciation, different tone
New pronunciation, same tone
New pronunciation, different tone.

My head is about to explode from all this!

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imron -

To me, the most difficult part about learning characters is the diminishing returns associated
with learning characters as the number of characters you learn increases. It gets harder and
harder to find the motivation to learn an extra 1000 characters when you know it will only
increase the amount of material you can read by a small margin.

As far as learning the characters go, I also consider there to be 4 facets, although they are
slightly different from yours. In order of importance to me, they are: meaning, pronunciation
(note I don't make a distinction between tones and pronunciation as I include tones as part of the
pronunciation, so different tones == different pronunciation), usage, and writing.

Personally, I don't think I'd find Chinese as interesting to learn if it wasn't for the characters.

atitarev -

I have to do more writing by hand in Chinese in order to succeed with my course and I am scared
despite the fact I like Chinese characters, no I don't hate Hanzi. They just disappear from my
head, if I don't write them. Complaining doesn't help, so I have to work harder. Passively,
perhaps I know between 1,500 and 2,000 characters but when it comes to writing I am able to
confidently remember maximum 300.

Lu -

I don't really get your point about how writing is not supposed to be beautiful. Sure, art can be
interpreted in different ways. But art is not the only thing that can be beautiful. A landscape
doesn't have any meaning, but it can be beautiful. A building can be good to live in and yet
beautiful. Different people have different handwriting, and some handwriting looks more beautiful
than others, but writing something in nicer handwriting, or even calligraphy, doesn't mean the
meaning is lost.

And hieroglyphs are written language just as much as Chinese characters are. You can't read them
and feel no need to learn to, but a lot of people could and can read them, and they aren't
hindered in that by the perceived beauty of the glyphs.

All that being said, I wish you good luck and much perseverance in learning the characters.
Learning them can be a pest, that's for sure, but they can also be very useful. (And there are
some gems. Check the last pages of the thread on 你 and 妳.)

susansun -

Hi,

I can understand your anger at learnig Chinese although I am a Chinese speaking standard mandarin.
It is said that Chinese is one of those most difficult languages to learn all over the world. I
dont know whether or not it is right but i do believe that 'cause I can speak english (or
chinglish) and a little Japanese. What I want to say is learning languages is always not
interesting as you just began when you step into a higher level. Just endure it. Good luck.

Regards,
Susan

magores -

For me, it's not the characters that cause problems. It's the multiple meanings, and the way words
are constructed.

I know the rules of stroke order. And the way my brain works, I remember that. I can see a new
character, and tell you how to write it properly.

And, I know the meaning of a fair number of characters.

But, its when you use a character, combined with other characters, to make a word, that I get
confused.

Without space between words, I can't always figure out where one ends, and another begins. Without
that visual clue, I can't always figure out what I'm looking at. If there was a space between
words, I'd be able to figure it out much easier.

Anyway... That's my contribution to the rant

IndhuRen -

I completely agree with the part about getting more confused as you learn more hanzi. I learned to
write around 300 hanzi in about 1 months time, I was following the book Rapid Literacy in Chinese
(Zhang PengPeng). Then I learned another 300 which took me 3 weeks and now I have realized that I
am totally confused and I absolutely dread learning the remaining 2400 hanzi which is supposed to
make me literate.

The amount of time, money and energy needed for an average learner to learn Mandarin is simply
astounding and infact I am wondering if all the effort is even worth it.

adrianlondon -

Quote:

I am wondering if all the effort is even worth it

That'll depend on why you're learning the language. If you're not finding it fun, and you don't
need to learn it in order to not starve, or something else equally fundamental, then stop learning.

You should be finding it fun! If you really hate learning the characters, concentrate on something
else (just speaking and listening; or reading if it's only writing you hate). Or pick a different
language, such as French or Spanish!

DrZero -

Quote:

I am convinced that if I want to progress beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced
to learn to read

Why are you convinced of that?

Quote:

Then I learned another 300 which took me 3 weeks and now I have realized that I am totally
confused and I absolutely dread learning the remaining 2400 hanzi which is supposed to make me
literate.

Curious, how is it that you are confused? Do you remember all 600 that you learned?

gato -

Quote:

Quote:

I am convinced that if I want to progress beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced
to learn to read

Why are you convinced of that?

Because learning the sophisticated sentence structure and vocabulary needed for that level
requires knowing how to read (assuming by "advanced" we mean being able to communicate effectively
at a professional level). That's true in English and other European language. It's even more true
in Chinese because of the bigger gap between the Chinese written language and spoken, which makes
it harder to learn grammar and vocabulary entirely by listening.

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HSK Exam - Signatures and Avatars - Page 2 -

2008-11-09T09:05:00.001-08:00

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Signatures and Avatars
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View Poll Results: What's your forums viewing pleasure?
I have both signatures and avatars turned on 15 78.95%
I only have signatures turned on 2 10.53%
I only have avatars turned on 0 0%
I have both turned off 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

Not sure how you'd have seen MartinF's avatar without them turned on. Maybe he sent you a pm? Not
sure if it would display then.

I was reading a topic that he had posted a reply to (or maybe he started it? I don't remember),
and saw his avatar. At the time I didn't realize that avatars were disabled by default, so I
remember thinking it was strange that he was the only one to have set an avatar. But I can't find
the post anymore, so it must've been a weird glitch. Anyways, no big deal - it was just a bit
unexpected at the time to see this Englishman grinning at me while browsing the forums. It made me
grin too.

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Chinese Character - How do you say... "cheer up" - Page 2 -

2008-11-08T09:10:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
How do you say... "cheer up"
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skylee -

Quote:

振作点了

I think 振作點吧 is more appropriate.

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noname -

振作起来 or 振作一点哦 or 开心点啦 or 别不开心啦 or 别垂头丧气的 or
没什么大不了的，别不高兴啦 or ...

grayedge -

加油,
雄起(idiom in Sichuan region)

W Jian -

嘿！精神点儿！（hey! jing shen dian'er. Used everywhere）

别吊儿郎当的！（bie diao'er lang dang de. Used in Beijing. The tone of this one is
complecated. Make sure that you won't use it if you were not an advanced speaker. But it would be
very funny. ）

skylee -

Quote:

Originally Posted by W Jian

别吊儿郎当的！

Does it really mean 'cheer up'?

W Jian -

to skylee:

it's complecated to explain, but I'm sure the opposite word of 吊儿郎当的 is 精神的 ( adj
).

skylee -

As far as I know (which is of course not much), 吊兒郎當 means 滿不在乎 ->

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-...ry=wholerecord

http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/Ge...eryString=%A6Q

ZhouNuosi -

how about 看开一点儿?

although I'm not sure myself what a good explanation of that would be...
"look at it more open minded"?

like when you break up with ur gf, somebody tells u that there are enough fish in the sea... I
guess that would be 看开 right?

W Jian -

PLZ, I have been using this word since I was a child, forget about that stupid dictionary. And I
have a question, why you guys deleted my former reply and didn't tell me?! you sucks!

Ban me this time, if you want!!!!

fireball9261 -

You generally speaks "别吊儿郎当的！" to people who are wasting their time on games and
drinks and who are not serious of anything. This is to get them to get serious and shape up in
life. These people are actually too happy in life.

"Cheer up" generally speaks to people who are sad, so "别吊儿郎当的！" should not be used
as "cheer up".

I also heard the use of this term "别吊儿郎当的！" since childhood.

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Chinese Speaking - Living in China -

2008-11-07T09:22:00.001-08:00

> Wikis > Living in China > Living in China
Living in China's Discussion
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muyongshi -

I'm just looking at this article and thinking "Is there really anyway to write a wiki on living in
China???" I mean come on really! I think it should be broken down into smaller subsections but
even then it is hard because every location is different...

Any ideas on a good way to do this? To have it both completely informative and completely
relevant...

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gato -

There are many possibilities. One way is to have articles divided by topics, such as shopping,
renting an apartment, finding a soulmate, etc. Another is to divide the articles by cities. I
think it might be better to take the topic approach as there is a lot of overlaps between cities.

roddy -

This is a fair point. What I have been thinking about is coming up with a broad template for quick
city guides, aimed at people who will be living in the city, with a focus on students. Ie

City Name
Orientation (Size, layout, where are the universities in relation to the rest of the city)
Public transport (particularly getting from universities to areas of interest)
Shopping: Major supermarkets, foreign language books, Chinese learning material
Studying: Quick rundown of the universities / schools in the city
Bars / cafes:
Restaurants: (just a few notable ones, obviously can't cover every 家常菜 in town.
etc . . .

That could obviously be expanded a bit, although I wouldn't want it to get too comprehensive. The
idea would be that people would look at the template and think 'Hey, I can do that. It'll only
take 10 minutes', rather than feeling they have to commit to a week of research and writing.

muyongshi -

Well there is two ideas....

muyongshi -

What if we do both? We can do one Article called city guide and then also do articles by topic.

For the city guide what I was thinking was if we just do one article and then set it up like the
Visa section with a list at the top divided by province and then a clickable link that will take
you to a specified city within that province. That way it is all in one place and we don't have
cities floating all over cyber world.

md1101 -

can we not create a wiki entry until we actually have something to put in it? I keep clicking on
them and finding them all empty. One city guide is enough to give people the idea to write one up
for a city they know. they dont need encouragement by empty posts.

gato -

You got a point there, md.

Also maybe Roddy can create a sub-folder for the city guides so that they don't clutter up the
"Living in China" page.

cdn_in_bj -

Firstly, thanks Roddy and the rest of you for getting this in motion. I know we are just starting
out but I am sure that overtime it will evolve into something great and extremely useful.

Quote:

What if we do both? We can do one Article called city guide and then also do articles by topic.

I agree with this approach. My thought was that we could have general topics, for example, the
Visa article, and from this article we can then provide links to region-specific information. For
example, have a link to an article in the Beijing section that talks about the place by Andingmen
where you go to do your visa stuff.

Also, while editing the "Renting an apartment" page I ran into the 10000 character limit. Any
thoughts on if this limit should be raised (if that is even possible), or how we should organize
the articles to keep them under the limit?

roddy -

The character limit can be raised - personally I'm inclined to say that as a rule we'd be better
off breaking stuff into smaller articles when we hit the limit, or doing some ruthless editing,
but I know I'm isolated and out of touch with the kidz, so . . .

gato -

Maybe setting 20000 characters as a limit would be better. 10000 characters is roughly 1500 words,
a fairly small number. The apartment article isn't all that long yet. Guess we should split off
the location-specific info into other articles. Roddy should think of a way to present all these
off-shoot articles, if that's what we are going to do. Maybe separate folder/section, as I
mentioned before. Or maybe cross references -- e.g. apartment guide linking to guides for
individual cities.

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Learning Mandarin - Writing about God -

2008-11-06T09:12:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Writing about God
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geraldc -

For reasons I won't bore you with, I attended a Chinese church service the other day. One thing I
noticed was that in the version of the lords prayer that was printed on the service sheet, when
referring to Him upstairs, rather than using 你 they replaced the 人radical with 礻making
礻尓. It didn't seem to be standard, as they also had psalm 23 printed out and that used plain
你 when referring to the Almighty.

Any rules and regs when using 礻尓? Although seeing as I don't know how to type it, its unlikely
I'll be using it much.

I did also wonder why it was a variation of 你 and not 您 too.

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Xiao Kui -

I don't know how the tradition came but I've also seen it in Chinese churches, and that alternate
radical on the left side is the radical for "reveal" which was originally a pictograph of an altar
and often used to refer to a god or gods. So I think it's out of respect and to distinguish it
from 你 . 祂 is also commonly used as a substitution for 他 in hymns. I'd also add that it
doesn't seem to be necessary (at least not in all Christian traditions) because most Chinese
Bibles (simplified at least) simply use the regular 你 or 他 when referring to God or Christ.
Also, my simplified IME (NJ Star) doesn't have either of these characters - I had to switch to
traditional to find them - makes me wonder if they're more popular in HK, Taiwan, and overseas
than they are in the mainland.

xianu -

I have actually seen ni that way in a Wang Fei song. I interpretted it as a way to express the
reverence and love she had for the object of her song (love song, of course). I figured it was
just a sort of poetic made-up character that made a play on the meanings of words.

muyongshi -

The history is quite obvious of this usage.

Missionary's way back in the day didn't like the association of god being put with the man or
woman radical so they opted to edit and use the "god" radical so as to describe that he is not of
the human persuasion. It stayed longer in taiwan and hong kong due to the openness of the catholic
church.

rootfool -

Agree with muyongshi.
In the past 祂 was not a character in chinese,and 祢 also didn't mean GOD.祢 is another form of
禰 ,It means put your father's 灵位(sorry but I don't know how to say it in english) in the
temple(生曰父，亡曰考，入庙曰襧).
Look at this character:禅，社，祇，神，祖，祈.They all have the radical 示 .In chinese
it means something about GOD.So I think that's the reason people opt 祢 or 祂 for GOD.

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Learn Mandarin online - 2007-2008 schoolyear dates (Yunnan Normal University) -

2008-11-05T09:24:00.001-08:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
2007-2008 schoolyear dates (Yunnan Normal University)
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wanderliz -

Hi,
Anyone know the date fall2007 semester at Yunnan Normal starts (and the dates for registration). I
can't seem to find a calender or get a reply from them...
Thanks for your help

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cliveloughlin -

Hi there

I have an offer for Yunnan Normal (BA Chinese Language & Lit) - it starts from 3rd Sept. 07.

They are really terrible at answering emails so you better call if you have questions:
0086-871-5516251 - speak to Ms Liu Xin. I'm not sure if the deadline has passed already!

wanderliz -

thanks for your reply clive.
they've already accepted my app, i'm just waiting to receive my visa materials from them.
do you know if September 3rd is the date classes actually start? I know there are
registration/placement tests beforehand, just need to know how far in advance. (sorry to be so
specific - trying to buy plane tickets that maximize my time before I need to be there)
thanks for the phone number too

cliveloughlin -

Hi
As far as I know the registration covers the placement test...not sure though as it doesnt say -
but you must be available to register during the dates above otherwise 'you will be regarded as
giving up this admission' (from the notice of admission that they sent me).
Best call to clarify
cj

wanderliz -

beating a dead horse...

"dates" above? your reply makes it sound like perhaps it gives a date range (such as 3rd september
through some other date, or some other date through 3rd september.) if so i just need to know what
that "some other date" is
thanks very much cj
Liz

mr.stinky -

http://www.icis.cn/en_Article.asp?ArticleId=169

from their website; out of date, but fall semester schedule should be similar.

the whole process will take about three days, due to disorganization and their new,
improved 4-1/2 hour lunch break.

the "placement test" only takes five minutes where they have you read samples from
the textbooks.

cliveloughlin -

sorry - i forgot to include the registration dates: between 27-31 August...that was the date range
that i meant!
didn't you get their admission notice yet?
hope it all goes smoothly

wanderliz -

thanks, that's just what i was looking for.
no worries, they've mailed my docs, just didn't mention anything about dates in the email they
sent me and i'm trying to buy my ticket now
so, guess i'll see you this fall. thanks again for your help - i owe you a beer or something

Liz

kasandrea -

Hi Everyone,

Many of you probably know this already, but just in case...

Yunnan Normal University now has an updated calendar posted on the English version of their
website:

http://www.icis.cn/en_Article.asp?ArticleId=273

22 Aug -- 29 Aug 2007: Registration, checking visas, placement test, and paying tuition
28 Aug: Orientation
29 Aug: "Take physical check"
30 Aug -- 31 Aug: Buy textbooks and pick up timetables
3 Sep: "Class starts according to your timetable"

I know I was confused at first too though. They sent me an email on May 14th telling me they were
sending my acceptance letter and visa forms, but they never told me anything about the school
calendar until June 24th. (I am grateful that they took the time to email me back though. ).
Anyway, Ms. Liu Xin also told me that the semester ends on January 11th and that their National
Holiday goes from 1 Oct to 7 Oct 2007.

I'm getting a little worried because my JW202 and Notice of Admission haven't arrived yet. Should
I be concerned? Maybe if it doesn't arrive within the next week or so I'll write them another
email or actually call.

I'm excited to start this new school year (if my paperwork comes in time that is. Hehe). I've
never been to China before so this will definitely be an adventure. Maybe I will meet some of you
there sometime.

jeffofarabia -

Does anyone know if there are summer 2008 dates?

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Learn Chinese online

2008-11-04T09:13:00.001-08:00

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
-Mandarin School in China.
Chinese Textbooks Wide range, cheap, varied languages. Also Chinese cartoons, toys, gifts.
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roddy -

That was my main worry about trying to use the forums for a wiki type thing. However it might be
possible for a 'wiki administrator' to make regular copies fairly easily.

roddy -

Also, there's a product by one of the companies gato linked in the first post which is a full wiki
installed natively on Vbulletin rather than bridging between a wiki install and VB - this would
(assuming the product is solid) would make things easier to manage and allow searching across VB
and the wiki, which is very important.

gato -

Quote:

a full wiki installed natively on Vbulletin

Yes, this add-on -- NuWiki -- looks fairly promising.

Here's an example of it in use. Not a very well done one, but an example nonetheless.
http://forums.livingwithstyle.com/sh...p?t=1869929479

roddy -

Gato, can I assume you'll be running this - I'll do the initial set up and deal with any technical
issues, but someone else is going to have to decide who is / isn't editing, decide on scope of the
thing, choose to retain or delete edits, etc.

gato -

Sure, I can take the lead as it gets off the ground. Hopefully it'll be easy enough that I won't
have to do too much.

Are you going to set Nuwiki? It looks fairly good for what it is.
Here is another site using it:
http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/...ead.php?t=4466

roddy -

Seems like the best option at the moment. It's not free, but the forums wallet can just about
stretch to it. I wouldn't want to use anything that didn't integrate very closely with the forums,
but that seems to. May loose some wiki functionality, but that's a price to pay.

Have a think about where you want to start in the first instance. I'd suggest that keeping it
fairly limited and focused at first would be a good idea, rather than risking spreading things too
thinly. Perhaps a guide for people starting to study Chinese, or for those planning to come to
China to study, etc.

roddy -

Just to update - we've basically got a wiki set up, it's just not on public view yet as there
isn't really anything in there and I'd like to have at least some content before unveiling,
although if I don't get around to putting anything in there in the next few days I might as well
just go ahead.

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others
could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something
substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others
could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something
substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.

Hey Roddy, I think that's a great idea. I was also wondering if it would be possible to
incorporate in the wiki an index to the most useful topics in the forum. For example, 'Living in
China' could include a link to the "Your accomodation in China" topic. And this index could get
updated by wiki users.

I know there is the search feature, but I am amazed at the amount of random but useful information
I come across on the forums just because someone posted a link from a different topic. I guess
what I am proposing is a more organized way to browse the forums. This would be a lot of work for
a single person to maintain, but with a community of wiki users it should maintain itself nicely.
What do you think?

simonlaing -

Hey Roddy et. al,

Sorry, I've been busy latelyI can help work on the living in China section. Should I PM or email
it to Gato.
Some subtopics could be :
Accomodation
Teaching Jobs- issues and support
Other Jobs- links, issues and support
Places to live
Food
Transportation

I agree linking to past discussions we've had on the topics would be helpful. Perhaps someone
could help by doing searchs on these topics and listing the links and basic descriptions.
What do you think?
have fun,
Simon

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Learning Mandarin - How many characters is enough? - Page 5 -

2008-11-03T09:18:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
How many characters is enough?
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DrZero -

"Perhaps the more interesting question is how many characters does it take to understand the radio
news in real time."

This is not to sound flip, but it actually doesn't take ANY characters. To back up your earlier
point, people don't speak in characters, they speak in words -- which is a drawback of a study
approach that is character-centric. Illiterate Chinese people can most likely understand radio
news. At the end of the day, Chinese is a language like any other, and should be studied as such.
It just happens to have a weird writing system.

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furyou_gaijin -

Quote:

Clearly, I had way, way over emphasized the role that individual character recognition plays in
the reading process. <...> On the other hand, I think that the solid foundation that I built in
characters did serve me well once I adjusted my learning strategy.

Very true. And I am very aware of this through my previous experience with Japanese. Hence I've
specifically mentioned that I pay a lot of attention to bisyllabics and chengyu, and do research
on the web into the actual usage. Reading is by far my biggest priority so the process is adjusted
to that. Listening and speaking are 'nice to have' and hence are subordinated to reading: I cannot
imagine saying something that I cannot read or write down. The same goes for listening: I am one
of those people that sort of 'visualise' characters as they hear the speech. This is just a matter
of personal preference, by the way.

Quote:

However, those 4 or 5 characters I can perfectly pronounce, and use in a variety of grammatical
situations. I just don't see any point in vacant, brute memorization. <...> I was under the
impression that you guys were actually LEARNING the characters. But you're just committing an
image to memory.

Let's see... the process I've outlined covers:

- 'perfectly pronouncing', i.e., the syllable and the correct tone
- visual recognition
- ability to write it from memory
- understanding the concept expressed by the character (I hate to use the word 'translation')
- awareness of its usage in most common words and chengyu - through the ample examples given in
the book (up to 60-80 examples in some cases) and additional research

So what aspect is still missing before the above can be qualified as 'Learning'? And which
situations exactly can be called 'grammatical'?

david1978 -

I looked up Stuart Jay Ray on Youtube. Nothing comes up.

furyou_gaijin -

Quote:

Illiterate Chinese people can most likely understand radio news.

Actually, it's a good question whether they can or not. I'm not so sure. Japanese news on
television rely on massive amounts of written text that appears on the screen together with the
speech: it would still be possible to understand the speech due to a lot of context yet the
written captions make understanding more 'comfortable', so to speak. But than again, that country
is highly litterate.

I believe that Chinese has an even greater issue with homonyms than Japanese: it would be
interesting to take a reasonably complicated broadcast that deals with politics or economy and
check how much of it is accessible to an under-educated native speaker of Chinese - on the purely
linguistic level, that is...

Moi, politically correct?!.. That'll be the day...

furyou_gaijin -

Quote:

I looked up Stuart Jay Ray on Youtube. Nothing comes up.

My typo, it should be Raj:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=stujaystujay

david1978 -

Fascinating stuff. I'll checkout the book you mentioned and get back to you, but a preliminary
goggle search shows it's out of print.

JimmySeal -

As furyou_gaijin points out, there is probably a lot of radio that illiterate people can't
understand, because illiterate people tend to have small vocabularies. At some point it becomes
hard to pick up new words if you can't read.

David and wushijiao, I feel that both of you subscribe to old-fashioned attitudes on language
learning and that is why you feel that my approach will not work (I know wushijiao did not
specifically refer to me, but said that character-based learning is not enough).

It is my contention that with enough reading and listening practice, a person can learn a language
without ever touching a dictionary. However, since I cannot pronounce Chinese characters merely by
looking at them, the way I could in many other languages, I have no choice but to memorize their
pronunciations one at a time. This also allows me to read Chinese subtitles on DVDs with mandarin
audio tracks, so that I can more easily decipher my aural input (essentially like watching a movie
with a script in hand).

So what I am doing right now is really just the lengthy process of learning to pronounce an
"alphabet" with ~6000 "letters." If I were learning any language with a simple phonetic script, I
would be done with this part of the process in a week, and would from then on spend all my study
time reading, watching, and listening. And I am already reading, watching, and listening in
Chinese, and understanding a lot of it, but it will still be a while before I can pronounce most
of the characters, and understand most of what I encounter.

For more on the reason I believe this is possible, I refer you to the following page:
Vocabulary Learning 2
which refers back to the following page, yet can be read independently of it
Vocabulary Learning 1

Mugi -

furyou_gaijin, perhaps you could post here again the next time you use, or indeed ever read, any
of the following characters you have gone to the effort of memorizing: 騅, 雈, 隹, 醮, 蟭,
潐, 膲, 僬, 燋, 趭, 噍. If you speak 閩南語, you might come across 燋. And if you are
studying classical Chinese or some specialty subject (ornithology, Taoism), then I'm sure you'll
come across some of these characters, but other than that they're obsolete. I assume you also go
to the trouble of learning obscure, obsolete, archaic and highly specialized words in English
too...

furyou_gaijin -

Quote:

furyou_gaijin, perhaps you could post here again the next time you use, or indeed ever read, any
of the following characters you have gone to the effort of memorizing: 騅, 雈, 隹, 醮, 蟭,
潐, 膲, 僬, 燋, 趭, 噍. If you speak 閩南語, you might come across 燋. And if you are
studying classical Chinese or some specialty subject (ornithology, Taoism), then I'm sure you'll
come across some of these characters, but other than that they're obsolete. I assume you also go
to the trouble of learning obscure, obsolete, archaic and highly specialized words in English
too...

I'm truly touched that you have dug up this old post but I have to disappoint you - I haven't
learnt any of the above characters, they were examples chosen to illustrate the general approach,
chosen in haste and without consideration for their meaning/frequency.

En outre, I am more interested in classical Chinese than in modern-day speech, for reasons far too
irrelevant to this thread.

And I will gladly learn any obscure or obsolete word in English if I happen to encounter it... But
I'm unlikely to go to the trouble you've put yourself through by looking up whole lists of them...

heifeng -

here's the answer: when you can throw away your dictionary and you don't miss it...

are we there yet?

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HSK - correct pronounciation - beginners question -

2008-11-02T09:14:00.001-08:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
correct pronounciation - beginners question
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j_spencer -

This is my first time trying to speak Chinese and I just want to make sure I have the correct
pronunciation technique. I am basing this on one of my Chinese books, which tells me how to
pronounce vowels and consonants.

This is a conversation; I’ll have a line in pinyin Chinese, and underneath, spelled out how it
sounds as if you were speaking it (in other words the pronunciation). Note - I’m ignoring tones
for this exercise:

Ni shi jones xiansheng ma?

Pronounced: Nee shee jones xyenshun ma?

Shi de. Wo Shi David Jones.

Pronounced: Shee dir. Wour shee David Jones.

Ni hao, Jones, xianshen. Wo shi wang lin. Hen Gaoxing jiandao ni.

Pronounced: Nee how, Jones, xyenshun wour shee wang lin. Hen gowxing jyendow nee.

Qing jiao wo lao wang

Pronounced: Qing jeow wour low won

Hao de, Lao wang. Jiao wo David ba

Pronounced: How dir, low won, jeow wour David ba

Huanying ni lai zhongguo, David

Pronounced: Hwanying nee lai jonggwar, David

Is this about right?

Is the structure for getting the right pronunciation as follows: you look for the longest letter
combination in the pronunciations list (pictured below), and work your way from the longest to the
shortest letter combination until you find the one that fits in with the letters in your word?
Maybe I’m not being clear, let me give you an example.

In the word zhongguo. First off, zh together form a sound (j like in jade) so you don’t need to
look at both letters individually. Then refer to the vowels list, there is iong (pronounced young)
but the I is missing from that combination in the word, so you therefore look for the next longest
with this combination, which is ong. The next part of the word is guo. There is no combination for
guo, but there is for uo. So you pronounce the g on its own, and then give the pronunciation for
uo (war). Hence, the pronunciation of zhongguo is jonggwar. Is this right? I hope it makes sense!

By the way, is it true that you don’t typically refer to or of someone by their first name only?
Rather by lao zhang, xiao li, or first name as well as second name?

Thanks a lot!

Jamie.

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lokki -

Relying on written explanations like that for pronunciation in this day and age makes no sense at
all. Get some audio material to practice with instead.

Chinese has a number of sounds not present in English so it is simply not possible to get it right
like that. The pronunciations given are just very rough approximations.

And you cannot ignore the tones, they are crucial to the meaning of words and just as much a part
of pronunciation as getting the consonants or vowels right. "Ignoring tones" is a bit like
"ignoring" the vowels in English by pronouncing all of them as "i". It might bi pissibli ti
indirstind simi pirts if whit yi iri siying bit dint bit in it.

kdavid -

I'm quite sure you've got a bad copy of pronunciation here.

shi4 (to be) should not be pronounced 'shee'. This is absolutely incorrect. It would be more like
a "shir".

I agree with the above poster. Pronunciation and tones mean everything in this language. Get some
good audio materials and join a language exchange on Skype or somewhere else.

OneEye -

Wow.

Here and here. Study at least the pronunciation and romanization tapes and PDF at the first site,
more if you like the method. You'll have to register at the second site (it's free), but the China
Panorama videos are great. You will have to buy the textbooks, and not all of the videos are
uploaded yet, but they're adding more stuff regularly. If you'd rather not wait, you can purchase
the VCDs on Ebay and many other sites. I recommend going this way if possible. Anything is better
than learning pronunciation without actually hearing it pronounced.

imron -

Agree with lokki. You're going about this completely the wrong way. If you want to get good
Chinese pronunciation, you simply cannot think of it in terms of English sounds. Get some audio
materials and practice with them until you can look at the pinyin and recognise/create the correct
sound without needing to transform it into your own pronunciation system. There are plenty
resources on the web, including pinyin tables such as this one, and also various websites that
offer tone drills, pronunciation drills etc, that will help you with this.

Regarding how the sounds are combined, usually, you combine the initial and the final together.
It's a good idea to familiarise yourself with the initials and finals, and in the table listed
above, the initials are the left-most column, and the finals are the top-most row. It's best to
think of a syllable as constructed of an initial and a final, with initials and finals being the
smallest absolute units. For example with zhong, the initial is zh, and the final is ong (note,
that the final for zhong is not iong, but ong, and that iong only goes with the j, q, and x
initials). Similarly, for guo, the initial is g and the final is uo, and put together you get guo.

Anyway, in Chinese, the common way to practice the pronunciation of the individual syllables is to
say the initial, then the final, and then finally combine them into one sound (adding whatever
tone is necessary). The table I linked to above has examples of this for each syllable under the
link "BPMF spelling"). The example for zhong can be found here, and the example for guo, here.

You will note in the examples above that when pronouncing the initials individually, they also add
a final onto the initial. The standard finals to add when individually pronouncing initials are:

bo po mo fo
de te ne le
ge ke he
ji qi xi
zi ci si
zhi chi shi ri

Which is why for guo, you will hear them say ge, uo, guo, for guo, even though there is no 'e'
sound in that syllable. This is just used as an aid for pronouncing initials individually. When
you combine the initial with another final you would use that final instead.

Finally, if you want to know whether or not you're getting the pronunciation for the various
sounds correct, rather than posting your approximation of the sounds in English, a much better
method would be to post an audio recording (Audacity is great for making sound recordings). This
will be a far more accurate way of knowing whether or not you've got the pronunciation correct,
because using English to approximate Chinese sounds is usually imprecise and ambiguous.

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

By the way, is it true that you don’t typically refer to or of someone by their first name only?
Rather by lao zhang, xiao li, or first name as well as second name?

Yes, that is correct. You either refer to them by their surname only or their full name (surname +
given name). The exception is if you are close to them (ie - friends or family).

Also, many Chinese of more recent generation only have full names consisting of two characters, in
which case you would never refer to them by their given name only.

j_spencer -

Thanks a lot for your help everyone. My initial post wasn’t as clear as it could have been so I
apologise for that.

Firstly, I’m not ignoring tones don’t worry! I just ignored them for this example; it saved me
having put a number after every word/syllable.

Quote:

shi4 (to be) should not be pronounced 'shee'. This is absolutely incorrect. It would be more like
a "shir". I'm quite sure you've got a bad copy of pronunciation here.

Are you sure? This is where I am deriving my pronunciation from (see pictures below). You can see
why I thought “shi” would be pronounced “shee”. I is pronounced ee like in bee. This
follows sh. So “shee” is the logical pronunciation surely?

Imron, Redeye, thanks a lot for those links. They are exactly what I need. The pinyin table in
particular hopefully means I’ll be able to pronounce all words properly now.

Are there any online audio dictionaries in Chinese to help with pronunciation? The pinyin table is
very good but I’d like to here the whole word just to confirm and make sure I have it correct.

My final question on the matter, what is skype language exchange? I know what skype is but am
unfamiliar with language exchange. Is it when you get in contact with someone from China and learn
via them?

Thanks again.

Jamie.

Shadowdh -

Quote:

Are you sure? This is where I am deriving my pronunciation from (see pictures below). You can see
why I thought “shi” would be pronounced “shee”. I is pronounced ee like in bee. This
follows sh. So “shee” is the logical pronunciation surely?

If you read a bit after the explanation where it says ee like bee there is a bit commenting on the
change in pronunciation after initials like sh... the other posters are right... get some audio
files and practice, practice, practice and then for good measure practice some more... also try to
find a native speaker (shouldnt be too hard in Bris-vegas) and then get them to help you and make
you say it right... the funny thing is that the language really needs to be spoken as there are
differences to how the try to explain it through the written word...

Shadowdh -

Ni shi jones xiansheng ma?

Pronounced: Nee shee jones xyenshun ma? Nee shi (short I sound) jones sscheeanshung ma is probably
closer but its hard puting it in writing...

Shi de. Wo Shi David Jones.

Pronounced: Shee dir. Wour shee David Jones. shi der (short on the er though) war shi...

Ni hao, Jones, xianshen. Wo shi wang lin. Hen Gaoxing jiandao ni.

Pronounced: Nee how, Jones, xyenshun wour shee wang lin. Hen gowxing jyendow nee. ssscheeanshung
war shi ... jeeandow...

Qing jiao wo lao wang

Pronounced: Qing jeow wour low won jeow (rhymes with meow) war lau wang
Hao de, Lao wang. Jiao wo David ba

Pronounced: How dir, low won, jeow wour David ba - how der lau wang jeow war...

Huanying ni lai zhongguo, David

Pronounced: Hwanying nee lai jonggwar, David whoanying...

my reply in bold but its really hard to articulate sounds in writing.. use things like
chinesepod.com or FSI (found on this board) and listen to everything you can get thats in
Chinese...

imron -

I think the last few posts just serve to illustrate why you shouldn't use English to represent the
sounds of Chinese It's just too fraught with ambiguities and open to interpretation by the reader,
not to mention if the written material isn't clear then it's easy to make mistakes like what the
OP did with shi/shee. If you listen to the audio recordings of this syllable you will find it is
nothing like shee at all, and I think the book you listed failed to really explain that more
clearly. Anyway, although it might feel comforting and familiar to see a description of the sounds
as related to English, if you learn pronunciation like this, then in the long term it will be more
of a hindrance than a help.

j_spencer, In addition to just listening to the audio files on that site, I would also recommend
recording yourself saying these sounds and then comparing the recording you make with the original
audio, and trying to figure out where the differences are. This can be a really useful way of
spotting mistakes in pronunciation.

Oh, and if you find a discrepancy between what the book says, and the audio files, trust the audio
not the book

Finally, if you're finding it a pain to type tones in pinyin, you might like to check out this
thread :-)

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Chinese language - Are these 2 phrases the same? -

2008-11-01T10:22:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Are these 2 phrases the same?
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NewUser -

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~walsto...mp3/dai-za.mp3

And what do they mean? I've used a dictionary for a few combinations {dei zao/dei za/dai za/dei
zou} and can't make sense of it.

Thanks.

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skylee -

sounds like 等一下 (deng3 yi xia4) - wait a second.

tanhql -

the first one sounds like 我跟你讲 (not too sure; it's too muffled), and the second one is
等一下.

xiaocai -

I think the fisrt one is “(你)等一下”.
And I'm pretty sure the second one is “等一下”.

NewUser -

OK thanks all. It never even occurred to me there were more than 2 words in each of those phrases.

Quest -

Record longer segments maybe? The tones and (你)等一 sound right, but the second "下" sounds
strange.

timelord -

The second sentence is the repeat of the first

cdn_in_bj -

Quote:

I think the fisrt one is “(你)等一下”.
And I'm pretty sure the second one is “等一下”.

Yes, you are right

xiaojiang216 -

I think the first one is 你等一下, and the second one may be 等一下喔...?

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Chinese Mandarin - Characters you just can't get right, damnit! - Page 3 -

2008-10-31T10:25:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Characters you just can't get right, damnit!
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Page 3 of 5 < 12 3 45 >

studentyoung -

Quote:

If there are such festivals in Mainland, why aren't they listed as public holidays like Taiwan,
Hong Kong, Macau and Korea do?

Saint Valentine's Day and Women’s Day aren’t listed as public holidays in Taiwan, Hong Kong,
Macau, Korea and even America but can you say that there are no Saint Valentine’s Day and
Women’s in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Korea and America? No matter Qing Ming, Dragon Boat,
Mid-Autumn and Chong Yang Festivals are public holidays or not, they are in our hearts and we
still observe them and take them as part of our traditional culture, just as Saint Valentine’s
Day and Women’s Day are in people’s heart, no matter they are public holidays or not!

But Ian_Lee, you don't observe these traditional festivals just because they are listed as public
holidays, right? I wonder if you observe these traditional festivals in Hawaii? You see, they are
not listed as public holidays in Hawaii. I hope you do, but ...who knows?

Quote:

And young student, even with Opium War, Christmas is being observed by many people in China now!

Yes! And at least, we won’t ask, “Why does Christmas become the festival of weirdo”.

Thanks!

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Ian_Lee -

Quote:

I wonder if you observe these traditional festivals in Hawaii? You see, they are not listed as
public holidays in Hawaii.

You are right. I don't observe these festivals in Hawaii because they are not listed as public
holidays in Hawaii. My kids don't even know what mid-Autumn Festival is before I took them to Hong
Kong to spend the Mid-Autumn Festival there.

Quote:

And at least, we won’t ask, “Why does Christmas become the festival of weirdo”.

Do you mean most people in China only have the IQ of my 12-yr old daughter who can't tell the
difference between X'mas and the festival of weirdo?

studentyoung -

Quote:

My kids don't even know what mid-Autumn Festival is before I took them to Hong Kong to spend the
Mid-Autumn Festival there.

Oh, really? And your kids won’t even know that Mid-Autumn Festival originates in mainland China,
if you don’t take them to China mainland. Of course, I see that you will keep hiding truth and
history from your kids. So, go on!

Quote:

Do you mean most people in China only have the IQ of my 12-yr old daughter who can't tell the
difference between X'mas and the festival of weirdo?

Take it easy, Ian_Lee! I think it has nothing to do with the IQ of most people in China, but it is
very clear that your daughter’s question is the very result of your cultural -revolution-like
educational style.

Thanks!

Ian_Lee -

Quote:

And your kids won’t even know that Mid-Autumn Festival originates in mainland China, if you
don’t take them to China mainland.

In the days that even Mainland tourists flock to buy Moon Cakes in HK and are afraid to eat those
made in their homeland, taking my kids to learn about Mid-Autumn Festival in Hong Kong is a safer
bet.

Quote:

your daughter’s question is the very result of your cultural -revolution-like educational style.

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution. Without Cultural Revolution, my daughter would not get
confused with X'mas and the Festival of Weirdo!

imron -

Quote:

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution.

Actually, more correctly you should say that it's the product of the CCP. The characters were
simplified before the start of the cultural revolution, so cultural revolution or not, it would
still be the festival of weirdos. Although there were further simplifications made after the
cultural revolution, these further simplifications were later retracted due to being unpopular.

studentyoung -

Quote:

In the days that even Mainland tourists flock to buy Moon Cakes in HK and are afraid to eat those
made in their homeland, taking my kids to learn about Mid-Autumn Festival in Hong Kong is a safer
bet.

But you won’t deny that moon cakes, like Mid-autumn Festival, originates in mainland China, too,
right? Without the traditional culture in mainland China, how come Hong Kong has mid-autumn
festival and moon cakes?

Quote:

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution. Without Cultural Revolution, my daughter would not get
confused with X'mas and the Festival of Weirdo!

Your imagination is fascinating, Ian-Lee! And you even try to use “Cultural Revolution” as an
excuse to cover your cultural revolution to your kids. It is a shame!

Thanks!

Ian_Lee -

Quote:

moon cakes, like Mid-autumn Festival, originates in mainland China, too, right? Without the
traditional culture in mainland China

Straighten your logic. Something that originates there does not necessarily flourish there. A lot
of things originate in China (which has nothing to do with PRC since they were there hundreds or
even thousands years earlier), so what?

The classical case is that Kyoto, which modeled exactly on the Tang City of ChangAn (now Xian),
preserves more of the Tang tradition than Xian does.

And please save whatever your argument about the traditional culture in Mainland. Whatever left of
the tradition in Mainland has been done away during the Cultural Revolution.

Quote:

you even try to use “Cultural Revolution” as an excuse to cover your cultural revolution to
your kids.

It is your injection first of "Cultural Revolution" and "Opium War" in this purely academic
discussion (I don't blame you since that is the common drawback of most people from Mainland). So?
Well, unlike you guys in Mainland, I am not that lunatic to teach my kids that "Father and Mother
are not as close to me as Chairman Mao" or put a "ox-ghost-reptile-God" labeled dunce cap on your
father or teacher before you curse them! Who should be more shameful? Anyway, the one who knew
"Shame" had already swum thru the shark-infested water to Hong Kong!

studentyoung -

Quote:

Straighten your logic. Something that originates there does not necessarily flourish there. A lot
of things originate in China (which has nothing to do with PRC since they were there hundreds or
even thousands years earlier), so what?

So what? So you can’t deny history! Do you mean you deny history very often? I think
饮水思源 (not to forget one's origins) is our tradition, right?

Quote:

So? Well, unlike you guys in Mainland, I am not that lunatic to teach my kids that "Father and
Mother are not as close to me as Chairman Mao" or put a "ox-ghost-reptile-God" labeled dunce cap
on your father or teacher before you curse them! Who should be more shameful?

Hehe. Who is more shameful? Those who couldn’t stand the cultural revolution and tried to swim
to Hong Kong are not shameful. But the one who tries to mock their hard situation should consider
where he is shameful or not.

The last words I want to say to you on this thread: Please study more, before you post again,
Ian_Lee. I can understand why you don’t like the Cultural Revolution, but it doesn’t mean that
you have the right to make rumors. You love Hong Kong and HKers, but it is not an excuse for you
to slander mainland Chinese people and their culture!

Thanks!
___________________________________________
P.S. It is my last post on the thread!

HashiriKata -

Quote:

It is my last post on the thread!

That's good! Ian_Lee also, let's get on with "Characters we can't get right". Are there other
confusing characters, anyone? .

wushijiao -

Quote:

another one is 吏 lì which I always seem to read as shǐ.

I'm reading a book in which I always meantally read 胥吏 (xu1li4, petty official) as "dan4shi3".

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Chinese language - One group class per week? Pay as you go? -

2008-10-30T10:19:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
One group class per week? Pay as you go?
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feebie -

I work so I need to study Mandarin 1 class a week.

Prefer.

1 class per week (evenings or weekends)
In a group
Haidian, Xizhimen (I live near Xiang Shan - far away)
pay as you go (well not too far in advance)

Im a beginner but not total beginner. Done 60hrs know approx 120-200 characters

need to improve on pronunciation.

I have heard that Global Village you can't do one class a week is that true???

Thanks for your help

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Chinese Tutor - How to send application fee to Tsinghua? -

2008-10-29T10:24:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
How to send application fee to Tsinghua?
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arozenshtein -

Hi everyone,

So I've filled out the form to apply to Tsinghua in the fall for language study, but I don't know
how to send the application fee. How does one write a check for Chinese currency...?

Thanks,
Alan

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Bastonata -

hi alan - I had the same problem with Beida, but my chinese friends told me just to send a
personal check, because if they have a bank account with the Bank of China, they can most
certainly cash it. They send money to their parents this way. Also, because application fees are
small amounts, its not worth wiring the money anyway. But, you should also hear from others,
because Qinghua might not like a check.

imron -

On the info sheet for General Visiting Students at Beida, it specifically states:

Quote:

Application Fee:400RMB, pay in cash or Yinlian bank card. Foreign currency or check is not
acceptable.

I imagine the same will be true for Tsinghua, however you're probably best off calling them to
find out (don't rely on email, as most Chinese universities are incredibly unreliable/unresponsive
when it comes to email communication). The foreign student office phone numbers can be found here.

PinkxMinkx -

I just sent the money in rmb,
if there is a bank of china, maybe you can exchange currency and mail that in ?
btw, i m planning on going to beijing for fall semester too !

Dani_man -

Hi there,

What you should do is to send a bank check.
you go to your bank and ask them to issue a check for Tsinghua University (or maybe they have a
special account for that - ask them), with the amount of 400rmb (or for the equivalent amount in
Dollars if your bank can't issue it using RMB - again, ask the office).
You can send it by normal mail (rather be registered, though), cause only the addressee can use
it, and you also can cancel it in any time. (in my case at least, you better check it in your
bank).
in simple words - it's a check from your bank to Tsinghua. you don't have to mess up with sending
cash or having troubles by using your own account.

Jamoldo -

send cash. Don't tell the post office. My post office employee kind of said you weren't allowed to
but then I explained that BNU (and other unis here) only accept cash. The guy at the post office
shrugged his shoulders and was like "no worries, lets just say I didn't hear you say anything..."

One month later I had gotten my acceptance letter.

Use cash, put it in a separate envelope which will go inside the A4 envelope which will have your
application materials and you're set.

mayho -

Anyone know who do I address the bank cheque for my BNU application fee? Should I just address it
to: 'Office of International Scholars and Students' Affairs' - I think that's what it says on the
BNU Application Form.

Thanks!

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Learning Chinese - just one room for rent near BLCU!!!! -

2008-10-28T10:15:00.001-07:00

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
just one room for rent near BLCU!!!!
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Cheri -

hello.
im a Chinese gril live with my boy friend. we live in 2bedrooms. now i want to rent out the larger
room which covers about 18sqm.it have wood floor, TV,air-conditioner,internet,.and in the living
room there have washing machine,fridger,shower.......the price is 1600kuai/month.and we are so
easy-going and friendly, if you want to learn Chinese i can teach you ,and if you are interest in
it pls. call me 13466698918 or send message to me babyface1594@hotmail.com

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Speak Chinese - I dont understand tones at all -

2008-10-27T10:19:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
I dont understand tones at all
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dynaemu -

I need help in the mandarin tones apartment.. I never hear them, songs, movie, when people speak,
anything.. its very weird... maybe I just dont know theyre there? Im very confused on the tones..
i just never hear them and it makes me feel odd when i try to speak chinese to someone.. anyone
have any help for me? >_<

Thanks

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mirgcire -

Hmm ... I think I have the same problem as you. Just to be sure, let me ask one question: do your
friends complain when you sing? If so, we likely suffer from the same affliction: "tone deafness".
After seeing your post I googled this and found the following link
"http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2002/jan/tonedeaf/020116.tonedeaf.html".

I am not sure how tone deaf I am, but I am rarely able to determine the tone of a word correctly.
To say it more precisely, I am correct only about 50-60% of the time. Sometimes I wonder if I
should just give up, but usually chinese people understand what I am saying.

dynaemu -

People dont complain when I sing, they like it..

Some do say im off-tune though..

Kong Junrui -

Well how long have you been learning Chinese? Of course, it's not gonna come to you really
quickly, and I too would get confused with tones early in my learning, but I'm in my third year of
studying this language and can much better identify tones in speech, though I know what you mean
about the tones seeming like they're not there... In regular language anyway. But as far as I can
tell, they're there but they come so natural that they're just kind of blended in with everything
else, kind of like how in English, you don't properly enunciate every single sound in a word in
regular speech. Sometimes words tend to be merged together but people still understand.

Or maybe it isn't like that.

imron -

Go to this page and download the files for the 4 different tones of ma (don't worry about the one
that says BPMF spelling for now). Listen to each one 20-30 times then move on to the next one and
see if you can tell the difference.

Being tone deaf has little to do with it. We use tones in English all the time, just in a
different way from the Chinese. Everytime you ask a question you typically will be changing the
tone of your sentence.

Compare for example the difference in pronunciation between the following sentences (especially
note the way you end the sentence):

He doesn't like football.

He doesn't like football?

For the second one, your intonation should rise towards the end, and by changing the tone, you are
changing slightly the meaning of what you are saying i.e. you change the sentence from a statement
to a question, or perhaps even an indication of surprise.

With Chinese tones, it's basically the same principle, except instead of working on a sentence
level, it works at a word level (or perhaps more correctly, a syllable level), and the difference
in meaning between the different tones is far greater than just changing from a statement to a
question.

If you're just beginning to learn Chinese, it is well worth spending the time to get your head
around the tones. You don't need to get them 100%, but you do need to be able to mostly
differentiate them both when you hear them and when you say them. If you don't get them right from
the beginning, then it will be close to impossible to fix them up later on.

<<恒心>> -

Sounds like you need to do some dictation (听写) practice so that you can begin to build
sound/meaning associations, that will force you to become aware of the tones. If you take a
recording of something and try to write out what you hear in characters, you'll immediately be
forced to choose which tone/character combo to represent what you heard (or what you think you
heard).

Since only one specific combination can be correct, and since the context will only go so far in
helping you to guess at which specific combinations is correct, you'll inevitably (and quickly) be
forced to make distinctions based on what you hear. With enough practice of this sort, I'd be
surprised if your awareness and accuracy in distinguishing tones didn't improve rapidly. Give it a
try!

mirgcire -

Does anyone have experience with software that can record your voice and provide visual feed back
on tone changes? I think it is possible to develop this type of software: it needs to take a whole
sentence and represent the tone changes in time and provide a play back so you can see where/when
the tone is incorrect.

One place that I have difficulty is saying 2 fourth tones followed by a first tone. For some
reason I just can't get it right ... (yet!). So this type of SW would be useful for overcoming
this challenge.

necroflux -

I give the same advice to everyone I encounter who is in the beginning stage of learning Chinese.
Do not begin learning until you can recognize the tones at least 80-90% of the time. If you start
learning words without the tones then you will develop a (delusional) habit of thinking that the
tones are unnecessary - and ask anyone on this forum who have made that mistake, ditching that
habit is a bitch.

So step 1, take a deep breath, and realize it's not that hard - you just need the right tools.

I present to you the right tool. Play this quiz over and over and over until you can ace it or
close on a regular basis. It shouldn't take long. You might go crazy in the process, but this will
be good practice for the insanity that lies ahead. Just kidding it's a blast.

As for actually speaking the tones properly, (especially in regards to sequences), I don't think
you need to be in a rush there. As long as you can recognize the tones when you hear them, the
speaking ability will come - because you ought to be able to recognize the tone of your own voice
after you speak. That actually takes a bit of skill in and of itself but it comes with practice,
as does everything. But indeed you will want to be checking yourself consistently as you speak, as
to whether or not the tones are correct. This is best done in the beginning stages with the help
of a native speaker, find/hire one at all costs.

I have found that with a good amount of discipline I have to think much less about the tones after
two years of study, so by putting that pressure on yourself at the beginning it certainly pays off.

Regarding tone deafness, I don't think the concept is related to tones as they are used in the
Chinese language. As far as I understand tone deafness, it relates to the perception of two or
more individual tones and whether or not they "match". When using tones in language, you only need
to be able to perceive relative change in pitch. If you can start singing at one note, and hear
your voice go up or down in pitch, then you have all of the tools necessary to speak and
understand Chinese. For proof just look at the Chinese people - if tone deafness does indeed make
speaking Chinese impossible, why is it that 1.5 billion people all have no problem speaking?

mirgcire -

Necroflex,

I think your advice is good, and the majority of beginners would do well to follow it, but I am
not a beginner.

It may be hard for you to comprehend but some people are actually less skilled than you when it
comes to hearing ability. Your point about the Chinese population is interesting. First of all,
your estimation of the population is off by about 200 million. And second, I think is is unlikely
that you are an expert on the percentage of Chinese that suffer from speech disorders. I also
seriously doubt you have any back ground in the area of tone deafness, speech therapy, or teaching
Chinese - but then, neither do I

I have been studying Chinese for over two years now and I am not a casual student. I study
everyday and I work hard on listening, practicing, reading, writing, etc. I have a reasonably high
vocabulary and I keep up with my class in terms of the visual language. But I have profound
difficulties hearing tones - both in my own voice and in others.

I have used the pinyin practice web site and can score okay, but not consistently. I still have a
hard time getting a score of over 80%. Also, I listen to chinesepod a lot and when Jenny
introduces new words I always try to guess the tones and often repeat several times to be sure.
However, I can only get about 60% of those correct. And no one speaks mandarin more clearly than
Jenny.

The method I use to express tones is by paying attention to which part of my body is resonating:
1st = mouth, 2nd = head, 3rd = chest, 4th = throat. It works well enough to get by. But this
method doesn't seem to be much help when I try to use some combinations of tones.

I feel pretty silly trying to make a solid case for how deaf I am, but this is the second time
this week that some has dismissed my difficulties as simply not paying enough attention. I am
going to follow up next week with a friend of mine who is a speech therapist to see if you can
provide me with any insights.

I am sure my condition is not common, and I hope that dynaemu and others can make good use of your
practical suggestions.

Now about that software that provides feedback on tones ..... ?
Has anyone out there tried such a thing?

imron -

@mirgcire - I tend to support Necroflux's point of view, and hold the same opinions about learning
tones, but at the same time am always willing to keep an open mind. I agree that sometimes it's
difficult to comprehend others having difficulty with something that comes relatively easy to
oneself, so I'm sorry if perhaps I came across as dismissive in my previous post.

However, regarding the points I made in that post, when you are speaking or listening to English
can you distinguish between questions and statements based on their tone?

For example I've attached a file of myself saying "you can't hear tones" both as a question and as
a statement. If you are listening to this can pick which is which? I ask because for me, this was
the base I used when I started learning tones and how to differentiate them i.e. I started by
analysing the way I processed tones in English and by paying attention to that I then adapted that
process to Chinese.

Anyway, such a process worked quite effectively for me, so I'd be interested in hearing your
thoughts (or prior experiences) in using such a technique.

Regarding software for tone feedback, this thread makes mention of a tool called Speech Analyzer
which looks to offer feedback you're looking for. I've not used it myself, so I can't vouch for
its effectiveness.

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Chinese School - 《双手的温柔》江美琪 - Page 2 -

2008-10-26T10:13:00.001-07:00

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
《双手的温柔》江美琪
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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

roddy -

Koneko, you're also clogging up the front page with posts that will be incomprehensible to the new
(or returning visitor), so I'm going to merge this latest batch. If you can't or don't want to
write up a bit of background info and personal reaction to a song, please refrain from posting it.
See here, here or here for examples of how it could be done.

Please also keep it to one per day. We need to keep an element of balance, and the current rate of
posting isn't balanced.

Incidentally, you're not a victim of the autocracy. The "autocracy "is providing a forum you seem
to enjoy using, at no charge, and requesting that you (and everyone) follow a few simple rules to
ensure that more people can get value out of it.

Comments on moderation (or editorial policy as I now think of it) can come by pm or email,
guidelines for posting song lyrics are here, comments on them welcome in that topic - they're
designed to make the forums as valuable as possible for all members so I'm happy to improve them.

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imron -

I think the key here is balance and relevance. Koneko, you should keep in mind that people are
coming to read /showthread.php?t=9711
Because there’s no clear regulation about:
“Please also keep it to one per day. We need to keep an element of balance, and the current rate
of posting isn't balanced.”
我觉得这里有一个时间先后的问题/ I think there’s a problem on the time and
sequence. If people at first wrote clearly “Please also keep it to one per day”, then of
course everyone on this forum should obey this. But if not, then if someone post “a large amount
of songs in small amount of time”, the administrative level perhaps should AT FIRST make it
clearly, and 从那时以后/THEN merge the relevant posts into one thread, instead of merging
them at the same time speaking to people “Please also keep it to one per day”.

I think there’s no big problems, just 沟通方式的问题/communication misunderstanding.

Now back to the first post, recommendation on Chinese songs:
I cannot remember when they were recorded, why do I like them? Nothing specially, just because
when I hear these songs, I think about all my friends, which makes me feel warm.
干杯，朋友 by 田震 (lyric included)
http://www.haoting.com/htmusic/114318ht.htm
朋友 by 周华健 (lyric included)
http://www.haoting.com/htmusic/16315ht.htm

大家和解吧

skylee -

Quote:

Originally Posted by elina

As a leader of large-sized forums with members of 11690 at present,

I object to the use of the term "leader" here. Just the term, elina, it is not personal.

roddy -

Couple of things I'd like to clarify here. I'd merged (and pm'd with Koneko about merging) a bunch
of similar topics earlier in the other cultures forum earlier. I didn't get the impression there
was any objection. Later four or five topics, with even less content and the 'victim of the
autocracy' tag were added to the music forum within a couple of hours. So I guess there was an
objection, although I'm still mystified as to what it is. I merge similar topics constantly and as
Imron has explained there's even more reason to do so when a number are posted in quick succession.

Run, host, maybe manage. Not lead, please, makes me sound like I should be giving speeches

Will move this out of the music forum. Should maybe close it but will leave it in case Koneko
feels she has something to add.

elina -

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylee

I object to the use of the term "leader" here. Just the term, elina, it is not personal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roddy

Run, host, maybe manage. Not lead, please, makes me sound like I should be giving speeches

I’m sorry for using the character of “leader”. I thought these forums are owned by Roddy
personally, now I know I was wrong to say that, and have just changed the term in my previous post.

Quote:

with even less content and the 'victim of the autocracy' tag were added

我觉得这种做法也不是很妥当的/ I don’t think this action is appropriate.

roddy -

They are owned by me I suppose, I just have 领导恐惧症 .

There wouldn't be anything here without the people who contribute, I fully realize that and I've
said so previously. I hereby say it again.

Koneko -

Relax everybody!

It's just a small case.
There are more important things for us to worry about...

I am an optimistic idealist.

I respect Roddy's decisions to merge my posts but I also complied with his what-when-where-who-why
requests in my subsequent posts in an easy-to-understand format.

I respect freedom of speech. Hence, everyone should be given a chance to express their thoughts
freely.

Must move this thread back to Music lest the lessons be forgotten.

K. says relax

roddy -

Quote:

K. says relax
__________________
There's reason in rebellion. Revolution is not a crime!
革命无罪造反有理!

Relaxed rebellion, is it?

I don't see how you can claim to respect the decision to merge the posts when you made it
necessary for me to do it twice. If you object, say so.

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Chinese Character - Podcasts other than antiwave - Page 6 -

2008-10-25T10:21:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Podcasts other than antiwave
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wushijiao -

I just took a trip to Luoyang and Shanghai and was able to get 德国之声 as of a few days ago.
I'd suprised it took them this long.

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roddy -

Hmmm, iTunes still can't reach it directly, need the proxy. The BBC's ChinaReel still survives.

Edit: And let me take this opportunity to reiterate how good this radio show is - you get solid
global news (with a forgivable focus on Germany), it doesn't pull any punches on China but doesn't
go on and on about human rights stuff like RFA, and the magazine content is generally interesting
and well produced. And there's hours of it every day. BBC take note!

Edit Edit: I wonder if this is due to coverage of the arrest of Hu Jia - normally I'm not keen to
link blocks with news events, but this sounds plausible to me. RFA and ChinaReel have both given
it ample airtime, can't get the latest programme from our German friends yet though.

roddy -

Is anyone else having problems with 德国之声？I have trouble at the moment even through a
VPN, with 404 errors for a lot of episodes - of the 9 that itunes is currently listing, I can only
download 4, and it's showing nothing at all for Jan 4th. Kind of annoying. Not sure if it's a
problem their end or something that itunes is doing.

The iTunes store isn't showing anything past the 3rd, but it can often be slow to update.

wushijiao -

Downloaded in less than a minute, here in HK. So at least right now, it's not their tech problem.

roddy -

Seems to be a bit better now, though still odd. Ie for the 6th I have four programs listed,
晨间，晚间一套上，晚间一套下，晚间二套. The first three seem to have downloaded
fine, but the 晚间二套 just gives me a 404 error via iTunes. As long as I'm getting one or two
a day I'm happy, but I miss it if it doesn't work at all as it's probably my main source of news
now (which explains why I'm so well informed on criminal behavior among young immigrants in
Germany, and how the nation's athletes are preparing for the Olympics.)

Not sure about all this German pop music they're playing just now though

roddy -

德国之声 is working fine now. Not sure what the problem was, but I don't think it was blocked.

How many of us are regularly listening to Radio Free Asia? I listen every now and then, basically
if I've finished 德国之声 and ChinaReel and still want something to listen to. I have to admit
I love the bits where they phone up random police officers and officials in the middle of nowhere
and ask them about various injustices. One guy just claimed he couldn't understand the question,
and then later someone else ( I think was actually one of the wronged) just yelled
你管这个干啥？ down the phone and hung up. You also get some gems like:

Interviewer: So it is true you've arrested 15 villagers and are holding them in your police
station.
Police: Yes, they're criminals.
Interviewer: What did they do?
Police: Crime.

Ok, I'm obviously both paraphrasing and translating, but it's worth listening to.

Long Pan -

Apart from the content, just curious to have your opinion about the difference of language between
德国之声 and some local news like CRI ?

roddy -

I listen to little, if any, mainland news, read newspapers now and then. I've never noticed any
differences. I suspect a lot of the people working there are mainland-born anyway - I remember one
listener emailing in to congratulate the Germans on how good their Chinese was, and the presenter
saying thank you very much, but he grew up in Beijing, so . . .

bagz007 -

Here's a website I meant to pass along a while back when I was more active in the forums
(apologies if it's been posted elsewhere):

http://www.bookast.com

It's a Taiwanese company that does book summaries on audio. They used to do a weekly podcast on
iTunes with MP3s. The content is still free after you register, but, unfortunately, you can only
download it in protected WMA format and listen to it through an internet connection. (At least it
appears that way--someone pls tell me if I've missed something.)

Most of their stuff falls into the business/leadership category. May not be everyone's bag, but at
least it adds to the variety of our options out there...I find the stuff VERY challenging...

roddy -

Does anyone else find themselves really enjoying Princess Remy's podcasts? I didn't used to like
them so much, but I'm finding that after a week of generally only listening to the BBC and
德国之声 going on about current affairs and human rights and what have you, ten or twenty
minutes of Remy nattering randomly about her favorite foods and what she thinks about James Bond
on a Friday are greatly appreciated. Kudos also for reliability - she must have been running for
years now, with a podcast very nearly every single Friday.

The website is here for anyone who wants to take a look, plus RSS feed and you can also find her
on iTunes - search 'princess remy'

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Learn Chinese - Writing Chinese characters, but left-handed... - Page 2 -

2008-10-24T10:21:00.001-07:00

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Writing Chinese characters, but left-handed...
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Gulao -

One of my classmates in high school wrote Chinese left handed, and didn't seem to have much
trouble. From time to time she would ask if it were possible to fix a character's stroke order to
make the character more natural for her, but for the most part it wasn't necessary.

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DoraYao -

I am left-handed too and have no problem with strokes.

renzhe -

I write left-handed too, and use the proper stroke order.

Since I'm close to ambidextrous (can write a with my right hand and the left-right preference is
almost split down the middle with me, depending on the task at hand), I have considered learning
to write Chinese characters right-handed, but it seemed too silly considering that I write
everything else with my left hand.

The characters will probably look a bit different. Right-handed horizontal strokes tend to slope
slightly upward, which is difficult to reproduce with the left hand, and that's one example. But
it really doesn't play that much of a role, you can write well with the left hand too.

Perhaps one day, I'll try to write with my right hand too. It's quite funny, I can write the Latin
alphabet with my right hand, it just looks a bit uglier and takes a bit longer, but I have no
difficulty doing it -- though I have spent very little time practicing this. I can also take a
left-handed guitar and play chords and scales although I have never practiced this either. I think
that left-handed people find it easier to do things with both hands than right-handed people.
Perhaps because so many things in our lives are designed for right-handed people, so we get ample
practice.

fireball9261 -

I am right-handed, and I always smudged my writings in the traditional ways (up and down, then
right to left) when I was a kid. So I always wished to be left-handed.

JimmySeal -

I'm left handed and I started learning to write Asian characters about 8 years ago. It has never
been a problem when writing with a pencil or pen, but I've found it all but impossible to make
characters look good when using a brush or long-tipped pen. In those cases, the push vs. pull
distinction really comes into play.

I started brush-calligraphy classes last February and I use my right hand exclusively for those. I
just feel there's no other way.

I would suggest at least encouraging your daughter to try writing with her right hand every now
and then. Right-handedness is a very useful skill in the 漢字文化圏.

I'm also in favor of using the correct stroke order, no matter which hand she's using to write.

Hero Doug -

It's a little off topic now, but in response to the many people who are saying don't worry about
stroke order, I'm going to say the exact opposite, I'm joining the other's who say it's important.

I read an excellent summary on here (can't find who wrote) about stroke order.

Get a pen and paper, and write the letter a (lowercase).

From what we've been taught, we start at the top, round down and to the left to make the belly,
and go up and down at the right to make the straight edge.

Write it again, but this time start at the top and make the straight edge first, then make the
rounded belly last.

They'll both be legible, but the first one (that is done naturally) will look better.

After I bought a program to teach stroke order I saw noticeable improvement instantly.

For these reasons I'd avoid encouraging your daughter to invent her own stroke order.

renzhe -

I absolutely disagree with imposing a stroke order on the Latin characters.

First of all, it definitely depends on your handedness. Such "rules" for right-handed people
result in difficult writing patterns for left-handed people, especially when writing fast.

Secondly, different places have different conventions. There are numerous ways to write Latin
characters. The Romans didn't leave instructions on which stroke comes first, or in which
direction it should go. I guarantee you that the "proper stroke order" some people teach in
Germany is completely different than the one taught in the US or France, or even in a different
school in a different city. They are all arbitrary. A character written in a different order looks
different, it doesn't look WRONG.

Chinese characters are obviously different, for reasons such as brush calligraphy, stroke count
and stroke-order dictionary lookup, etc.

Hero Doug -

The point of my post wasn't about writing Latin characters, it was about writing Chinese
characters.

I used an 'a' because everyone here is reading and writing English, so everyone should be familier
with the letter 'a'.

Secondly, I posted that to illustrate that if you write something in a different order then it's
usually written in, then you may end up with something that looks different then it should. What
it should look like, if what you say is true, is subjective. I was obvisouly writing that from my
perspective.

But as far as I know, in China the children are taught how to write characters one of a few ways.
So if you also learn how to write characters in one of those ways then chances are that Chinese
people won't have as much trouble reading what you write because it fit's one of the standards.

And I'm saying the same thing holds true for Latin letters, or any other way of writing, the more
you deviate from the standard the harder it is going to be to read what you write.

dannydy -

i'm also a leff-handed,it seemed wouldnt have much problem for me to writing the order of the
chinese character stroke. But in fact, the earlier of writing character on the paper was from left
side to right side.

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