Speak Chinese - Who feels like reading about enameling? -

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Who feels like reading about enameling?
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grilkip -

Hi.

I don't speak Chinese, I work for a Dutch enameling company. I was browsing the co's website and
noticed a Chinese flag linking to a Chinese version of the site.

Considering the reigning stupidity in my company , I am curious as to how good the Chinese
translation is. Good? Laughable?

So any chinese readers who feel like looking at it, I'd like to hear your judgement.

www.ferrotechniek.com/cn/

Here's a page in English and Chinese talking about heat exchanger plates:
English version
Chinese version

Thanks



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Xiao Kui -

I don't know anything abt heat exchanger plates, so I can't judge the accuracy of the translation,
but the Chinese itself seems okay to me. (I'm not a native speaker)










trien27 -

I would say it's Chinese translation is 90 -100% accurate.
In other words, Perfect. Or so I thought, until I right-clicked on the Chinese page and clicked on
Properties, it said the text language is in Dutch, instead of Chinese! In English, it said "sister
company", but in Chinese, it said "brother company"?! I guess your company can't tell their sister
from their brother?!










heartless -

The Chinese translation is very good. It is accurate, brief but to the point and very
professional(as to commercial adverstisement text). There is only one small thing that is not so
satisfactory. The Framework of the Kyoto treatment usually is rendered in Chinese as
"京都议定书" rather than "京都条约" as the website translates, which I think must be very
minor defect. Other than that, it is perfect.










grilkip -

Thanks all!

I was hoping for a smoking gun but I guess there isn't one.

China is a big market for us so I guess it's only good.

Thanks folks for bothering!










heifeng -

i could only spend a minute or two looking at this, but in addition to the issue of the kyoto
protocal framework above, there is a very obvious grammatical mistake here:

http://www.ferrotechniek.com/cn/spec_exchangers.html
由Ferro
Techniek镀搪瓷的换热器板片总面积超过370万平方米，相当于580个足球场面积��
�和还多！
I'll let other board members figure out how to correct it b/c I am in a hurry today. have fun

Other than this once upon a time I worked primarily with heat exchangers and will look through the
site more...my impression is the chinese is passable, but maybe if you look at an actual Chinese
company's websites the wording seems slightly more formal (flowery, or full of b-s...you can pick
one of these adjective...).
But with most things everything is a work in progress, your company can slowly improve it.












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Chinese Studies - Hello... Needed help identifying something... -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
Hello... Needed help identifying something...
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cmazzagatti -

I've had this in my closet for years and haver never been able to properly identify it. There's
another one to the set, and I have NO idea what the heck it is. It looks like a dragon
encompassing a ball in it's flame breath.

Here's a picture: http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000393bf6.jpg



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studentyoung -



Quote:

I've had this in my closet for years and haver never been able to properly identify it. There's
another one to the set, and I have NO idea what the heck it is. It looks like a dragon
encompassing a ball in it's flame breath.

Ah ~ ~ ! It is some kind of decoration. There are three lions on it. Two big one are play with a
ball, while a small one is watching them.

Thanks!












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Chinese Studies - Favorite Chinese food - Page 3 -

> Chinese Culture > Food
Favorite Chinese food
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Page 3 of 4 < 12 3 4 >






fireball9261 -

Hi nitnoy, the Suji you mentioned, if it'a by product of the gluten, it's actually called "麵筋"
(mian4 jin). It is made from wheat flour and high in protein (it was washed somehow to get rid of
most of the starch in the wheat). You can find in in some of the Shanghainess Restaurants out side
of China as an appetizer cold dish. I can get them in Chinese grocery markets in Los Angeles
without problems. I believe you could get them in other major Western cities as well (I think).

The Suji I know (made by my mom's Shanghainess friend who was born in late Qing dynasty) was from
the delicate Tofu skins. They (the Tofu skins) had to sprinkle on seasonings and some finely
chopped stuff (I forgot what they are), wrapped together, and then tied tightly and probably
pressed down by something for a long time. Then steamed and served in cut slices. Their texture
have the texture of a real tender chicken or firm fish. They are excellent to make mock chicken
and mock fish. This type of Suji, you have to find in people's homes and no where else I know --
Maybe because it's just too difficult and time consuming to make. I haven't had it for almost 30
years since my mom's friend passed away.

I also like Tofu hua, especially the sweet ones with added fried peanuts. I know it's sort of
weird, but it tastes good. Definitely xiao long bao and Northern style of soup filled baozi. I
tried to make those without too much success.

Green onion pan cakes are also my favorite. Fortunately, I learned from my brother how to make
them in childhood. When I came to U.S. without the proper Chinese restaurants at that time, I was
able to make them myself. Later, I could buy the frozen ones in Chinese grocery markets in LA. You
just need to fried them yourself. Again, I think you could get at least the frozen ones in most
Western cities' Chinese grocery stores.



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owshawng -

Taiwanese Beef noodle Soup, Salt and Pepper Pork, Sweet and Sour Cabbage, there are so many yummy
choices.










nitnoy -

Hi Fireball, thanks for highlighting the suji and yes in Singapore, we do have those mock items
made from delicate tofu skins and one of the best know varity will the mock goose, it's served
deep fried and topped over fried noodle or "bee hoon" and other mock items and doused with curry
gravy
well i must admit that in Singapore, there are not much people who really make the mock items at
home anymore or even really know how to make it at all.

your tofu hua with fried peanuts sounds good to me, locally we have those tofu hua with braised
peanuts but not fried peanuts, maybe should try it
ps: tried ice-cream with fried peanuts, it's really good










nitnoy -

Hi Shawn, Taiwanese Beef noodle Soup is good, tried it in Taiwan Taoyuan in June, it's really
yummy, it goes well with some pickled cabbage, and also braised aubergine(egg plant)
ps: now my saliva is really dripping, slurp










fireball9261 -

I shouldn't be reading this thread with empty stomach. I think I need to go to my Chinese grocery
store and see if I could find my favorite Chinese foods.










cdn_in_bj -

My favourite food, believe it or not, is 肥肠










LaoZhang -

I could eat 羊肉串 every day. In fact, I ate it about 5 times a week when I was in China last
year. Plenty of stories of people using "questionable" ingredients, but I don't care. Maybe
老鼠肉 isn't so bad after all.

When I returned to the states, I was craving it, I couldn't find it around herd, and out of
desperation, experimented and found that you can make it easily yourself.

Ingredients:
1. Nice big hunk of boneless lamb shoulder
2. Bamboo skewers
3. Cumin, crushed or powered
4. Salt
5. Chili flakes

Steps
1. Cut up meat into good sized cubes, 3/4 inch works good
2. Put meat on skewers. Leave at least 1/4 inch between pieces
3. Put under broiler until brown (~7 minutes my toaster oven, top rack)
4. LIBERALLY sprinkle on a mix of cumin, salt, and chili (I like about a 40/30/30 ratio,
respectively).
5. Turn skewers over and broil until brown (about another 5 minutes or so)
6. Liberally sprinkle on the mix on this side.

You don't have to soak the bamboo skewers because the broiler doesn't get as hot as wood coals.










imron -

You should open up a 羊肉串店










LaoZhang -

The though has crossed my mind...

Set up a little portable near a college campus, import some 燕京啤酒....










cdn_in_bj -

Thanks for the recipe, that looks delicious! Does it taste different from the coal cooked version?












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Study Chinese - ZDT: flashcard -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology > ZDT Flashcards Forum
ZDT: flashcard
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xtenhome -

why is there no way to automatically advance the flashcards ?

If there is I am sorry it is not obvious. I want the cards to advance automatically not to have to
keep pushing the button



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Chinese Tutor - Cantonese Grammatical Particles (in Spoken Cantonese 粵語),and some off the topic stuff -

> Learning Chinese > Non-Mandarin Chinese
Cantonese Grammatical Particles (in Spoken Cantonese 粵語),and some off the topic stuff
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Xi'Er Dun -

Can someone (ie. a Cantonese Native Speaker) explain grammatical particles used in Spoken
Cantonese 粵語 as it is written, and their usage. I have seen written Spoken Cantonese in
magazines from Hong Kong 香港 and would like to be able to read more.
Some articles in Hong Kong magazinese are written in Spoken Cantonese but most in Standard
PuTongHua 普通話 but in Traditional Characters 繁體.

I have seen articles where [乸]﹐ [咗]﹐[啲]﹐[哋]﹐[冇]﹐[係]﹐ [嚟]﹐ are used
quite frequently.

By the way, I have seen in the Kangxi Zidian 康熙 these two Hanzi 漢字 [吔] and [吀]
I believe that [吀] was the Chữ Nôm [宁字 （one character) 喃] (Chu*~ No^m is your
computer can't see Vietnamese) used for the "xin" in [Xin Chào -- 吀嘲]. I am still not sure
of the definition and usage of [吔]. I have also seen that the Chữ Nôm (Chu Nom) for
người (ngu*o*`i)--meaning nationality, person, looked like a cross between 人 and 得 (but
得 without itsㄔradical).

And lastly, if there is a Korean Hanja 한 자 漢字 expert on this forum, could they explain the
concept and historical usage of Gukgyeol (kwukyel) 국열 Hanja Characters, for example the one
[朩 -- 둥 dung (Mandarin: deng3)--meaning: rank, grade].
I know I probably have anyone who is reading this baffled, also I have really strayed off the
original topic of Spoken Cantonese, sorry.

謝謝您

Xi ' Er Dun 希爾頓 from Australia 澳洲



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Quest -

[乸]: grown female / wife (disrespectful)
[咗]: past particle 了
[啲]: plural marker 些
[哋]: plural marker 们
[冇]: 无、没有
[係]: 是
[嚟]: 来

Can't help you with the others.












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Chinese language - Horrible Translation - Page 3 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Horrible Translation
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Page 3 of 3 < 12 3






muyongshi -



Quote:

You may offend certain people otherwise.

Are you being facetious??? Because there is no way that I can offend someone by saying a normal
word like 短处 or would you care to elaborate more?



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skylee -

For someone who has a 五短身材, the word 短處 might be offensive.










David Huo -

Hey guys, remember they were in a conversation.

I'd rather say: 长这么高，最大的麻烦是什么？










LilyXu -

hehe~~i think she just made up the word together. it's completely not right.

"What's the worst thing about being so tall?"--长这么高最大的不便之处是什么？

I'm going to be an interpreter(part-time job) of EU-Chengdu SMEs Business Matchmaking &Cooperation
Incubation 2007 for 2 days next month. I hope I won't make such silly mistakes like this. LOL












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Chinese Pinyin - help choosing best school -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Teaching English in
China
help choosing best school
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alisoncita -

Hello all,
I am about to embark on what I hope will be the adventure of a lifetime, and go to work in China
(Beijing) as a Teacher. I have been offered so many jobsm but don't want to accept something below
standard, as I have 11 years experience and expect to fond a good school. So far, the only
interestinf offer I have got is from Languagelink in Beijing, where they offer 12000 RMB a month.
If anyone knows of this school or could give me any informationabout other well paid
insititutions, I'd be really grateful. Thanks all, Alison



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simonlaing -

Hi Alison,

If you have experience and a teaching certificate you should apply to international schools around
China. There's ones in Beijing, Shanghai, qingdao, Suzhou, Nanjing, and more.

If you have a teaching degree you can earn huge bucks like 25,000 RMB starting a month. (Yes a
westerner salary in China.)
You will just teach foreign kids but, it will still have lots of time for trips, learning Chinese
if you wish and learning about China.

Have fun,
Simon










Genosha -

Hi Alison
I'm sorry, I've been in Beijing for a year now and I've never heard of Language Link. I did see a
post from someone else the other day. They were recommending it as a good school to go to. Not
sure if that's good enough for you

Anyway, I have a brief list of schools in Beijing here at www.geocities.com/steppingeast/

It's not the greatest list in the world, but to anyone who knows anything about schools in China
please fill in the form and lets get the information out there! The biggest problem about being a
Teacher in China is the lack of info! So it's up to us teachers to share with each other and
spread the word.

Also Alison, once you arrive, please visit the site and let us know what language link is like

Thanks so much.
Mark












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Learn Mandarin online - Recording Chinese Lectures: Recording Device & Speech to Text Query -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Recording Chinese Lectures: Recording Device & Speech to Text Query
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tongtaitai -

Hi!

I'm about to start a chinese medicine degree course at BUCM (taught in Chinese), and am concerned
that I won't be able to keep up with note taking in class. Does anyone have any tips or
information on the following:

1) Recommendations for digital recording devices e.g. using ipod, or Olympus/Sony devices to
record lectures. I currently have access to an 20GB Photo iPod, but would be ready to purchase an
Olympus D-50 Digital Voice Recorder or similar if this gets the job done better.

2) Speech to text software - I have no experience of this sort of software, so any help would be
very much appreciated. I'm looking for something that would be able to to take the recording of my
lectures (given by various teachers), and turn it into text.

Thanks in advance,

Angharad

Edit:

Please see the following:

http://www. /showth...726#post120726

-Wushijiao



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Chinese Tutor - help in translation -








  > Learning Chinese > Chinese Tattoos, Chinese Names and Quick Translations
help in translation
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 veena_barretto -

Hi,

can you please translate the following for me . i had orrded something but i got a reply from
chinese.... i need to reply soon but i cant understand the mail.... pls help


ã€HD-295ã€‘[TVBç»å…¸æ€€æ—§][1986å¹´å‡ºå“][ç¥žå‰‘é­�
��åˆ€][å›½è¯­][40é›†]æ¬§ç‘žä¼Ÿ/å®¹æƒ
é›¯/åŒºä¼ŸéºŸ/é»„å…æ/è”¡å˜‰åˆ©/å´èŒœè–‡/çŽ‹æ�
��æ˜Ž/åˆ˜ç¢§ä»ª/å¼
ç¾Žæ™º/é»Žæ±‰æŒ/æ¢é¸¿åŽ/éªã€€é›„/æŽé¾™åŸº/ä»
™æœæ‹‰/å•æœ‰æ…§ã€€/ç§¦ã€€æ²›/åˆ˜å…†é“­/æ¢æ
´åŽ/é™ˆè£å³»/é©¬æ…§çŽ²/æ›¾ã€€æ±Ÿ/æœ±é“å’Œ/é™�
�ä¸­åš/å¶å¤©è¡Œ/é²ã€€æ–¹/é™ˆé›ªå„¿/ç™½æ–‡å½ª
4HDVD [å®¶ç”¨ç¢Ÿæœºå¯çœ‹] ä»·æ ¼ï¼š40å…ƒ/å¥—
æµ·å¤–æ™®é€šèˆªç©ºé‚®è´¹ï¼š200
æ€»å…±ï¼š240å…ƒï¼ˆäººæ°‘å¸ï¼‰

ä½
å¯ä»¥é€šè¿‡è¥¿è”æ±‡æ¬¾ç»™æˆ‘ä»¬ä¹Ÿå¯ä»¥é€šè�
�‡ä½ é‚£è¾¹çš„é“¶è¡Œç›´æŽ¥è½¬å¸
> åˆ°æˆ‘ä»¬çš„ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œä¸Šæ¥ã€‚
>
> æ±‡æ¬¾æ–¹å¼ä¸€ï¼š
> å›½å¤–ç”¨æˆ·è¯·ç”¨è¥¿è”å›½é™…æ±‡æ¬¾
> è¯¦ç»†è¯·æŸ¥é˜…www.westernunion.com
> è´Ÿ è´£ äººï¼šé™†æ˜¥ï¼ˆLu Chunï¼‰
è”ç³»ç”µè¯ï¼š+86-010-86538052
> åœ°ã€€ã€€å€ï¼šä¸­å›½åŒ—äº¬å¸‚æµ·æ·€ï¼ˆHaidian
District,Beijing,Chinaï¼‰
>
>
> æ±‡æ¬¾æ–¹å¼äºŒï¼š
>
> ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œ
> æŠ˜å·ï¼š4020200-0188-071757-2
> å¡å·ï¼š4563510100863558536
> å§“åï¼šå•†ç«‹å²—
>
å¼€æˆ·è¡Œ:ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡ŒåŒ—äº¬åˆ†è¡Œè¥¿å•æ”¯è¡Œ
>
è¯´æ˜Žï¼šä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œå¯ä»¥ç›´æŽ¥æŽ¥å—æµ·å¤–å¤�
��å¸æ±‡æ¬¾
> ä¸­å›½é“¶è¡Œçš„è‹±æ–‡å¸å·æ˜¯ï¼š
> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2



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 imron -

This tool can be used to convert garbage characters into the correct Chinese encoding so that it
can be displayed correctly. For your email, it produced the following output:



Quote:

【HD-295】[TVB经典怀旧][1986年出品][神剑魔刀][国语][40集]欧瑞伟/容�
雯/区伟麟/黄允材/蔡嘉利/吴茜薇/王敏明/刘碧仪/�
美智/黎汉持/梁鸿华/骏　雄/李龙基/仙杜拉/吕有慧　/秦　沛/刘兆铭/梁洁华/
陈荣峻/马慧玲/曾　江/朱铁和/陈中坚/叶天行/鲍　方/陈雪儿/白文彪 4HDVD
[家用碟机可看] 价� �：40元/套
海外普通航空邮费：200
总共：240元（人民币）

� 可以通过西联汇款给我们也可以通过� 那边的银行直接转帐
> 到我们的中国银行上来。
>
> 汇款方式一：
> 国外用户请用西联国际汇款
> 详细请查阅www.westernunion.com
> 负 责 人：陆春（Lu Chun） 联系电话：ó010-86538052
> 地　　址：中国北京市海淀（Haidian District,Beijing,China）
>
>
> 汇款方式二：
>
> 中国银行
> 折号：4020200-0188-071757-2
> 卡号：4563510100863558536
> 姓名：商立岗
> 开户行:中国银行北京分行西单支行
> 说明：中国银行可以直接接受海外外币汇款
> 中国银行的英文帐号是：
> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2

It's confirmation of an order you placed for the tv series 神剑魔刀. It's 40 rmb for the DVDs,
and 200 rmb for the postage, which is being sent by ordinary airmail. 240 rmb is ~US$30

It lists two methods for paying. Method one is to pay by western union and is for use by foreign
customers. Considering it's being sent by international airmail, I'll assume this is what you'll
need to use. The details of the person you need to send it to are:
Name: Lu Chun (Note, the surname is Lu, and the given name is Chun).
Contact Phone：010-86538052
Address: Haidian District, Beijing, China.










 veena_barretto -

thanks.... so if western union

can u plls translate the details of how and whom to send the money through western union...
i think the other mode is through Demand draft right.

please transalte the details and let me know...so tht i can send the dd......... i will be really
thankful to u.










 imron -

I gave the details for western union in my post above, or rather, they were the only details
provided. I've never used western union so I'm not sure what other details they require.

The other method is bank transfer, and is the same as what the person wrote at the very bottom:

> Payee:Shang Li Gang
> Open bank:Bank of china Beijing branch Xi Dan sub-branch
> Accounts:4020200-0188-071757-2

The Chinese also lists a card number: 4563510100863558536 I don't know if that will help.












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HSK Exam - Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1 - Page 9 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Remembering Simplified Hanzi 1 and Remembering Traditional Hanzi 1
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braveb -

What do you mean by gutted? By this do you mean the book is not going to be published? If so, then
where did you get this information?



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m.ellison -

I think some of us are getting a bit impatient... wait a bit, they are working on it, it will come
out. Books take time to get together, maybe six months from final manuscript until it reaches the
bookshop.










NickyR -

Sorry, that was not a very clear post.

I was just gutted that it's not going to be ready for a while. Am definitely one of the
"impatient" ones!

Nicky










ABCinChina -

Seems like this book is going to be very good in helping to remember Hanzi. I think this book is
better suited for people who can already recognize and read some characters, but do not know how
to write.

Does anyone know if this book will be available in China?










m.ellison -

Has anyone looked at
http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Chine...6652582&sr=8-1










Zhang -

OK now im really pissed....I was hoping to get this one done and dusted before the end of the
current Uni semester, now its looking like not even gonna be able to get my hands on the book.










Volapuk49 -

The books are to be published by the University of Hawaii Press.

I just contacted them and have been told the following:

The manuscripts for both the simplified and traditional characters are currently
undergoing extramural review. If they are accepted for publication by
the editorial board, the books might be available as early as July or
August of 2008.

Let's keep our fingers crossed.










kumori -

Thanks for the update Volapuk49! God I wish they would hurry up and publish it.... "extramural
review", phew, what a joke; it's Heisig for crying out loud, his work is beyond contempt!

Just publish it Hawaii! Do it now!










m.ellison -

I am about to start a new thread for Matthews and Matthews, Learning Chinese Characters -- it
should be of interest to anyone reading this thread. (But it deserves its own thread).










KONDDE -

PROGRESS REPORT (5 May, 2008): The book is currently with the University of Hawai'i Press, where
it is being proofread in preparation for publication

from:

http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/...0Hanzi%201.htm












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Speak Chinese - Tsinghua University Feb 2008 start date? + other practical questions xie xie!! - Page 3 -

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Romana -

Thanks Aziza and dedsall78,

I guess I'll pay it with the tuition then, since I'm short of money now..



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Learning Mandarin - IUP and Princeton in Beijing - Writing Characters Required? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
IUP and Princeton in Beijing - Writing Characters Required?
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myann23 -

Hey fellows,

I've been in China for a little over three months now having been studying at TLI in Beijing for 2
months and now in Dalian for a semester at DUT here along with continuing at TLI's Dalian location
(albeit with much less hours per week). I've focused on listening and speaking my first two months
here and a few weeks ago I've just started to learn characters (read, not write).

I plan on applying to PIB and IUP hopefully in the future, but I want to know how much they stress
writing characters. Do you need to be able to write characters to get into the program and
complete it, or is just reading fine? As I need to learn Chinese for professional reasons, I don't
really need to learn how to write so I tshould learn a lot quicker. These programs seem like ideal
bootcamps for learning Chinese, but I'm not sure I could attend if I don't learn how to write.

Aside from that question, do you think 3 hours a day 5 days a week of 1-on-1's for 2 months, and
then subsequently 4 months of university classes in Dalian supplemented by 6 hours a week of
private tuition be able to bring me up to the level of Chinese required by these programs?

Thanks for any assistance. I plan on writing my full review of TLI Wangfujing later today.

Mike



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Long Pan -

Is what they talk about in this article in relation with what you want to do; if so it might
interest you.












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Learn Mandarin online - Search By Handwriting Recognition -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Search By Handwriting Recognition
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imcgraw -

I'm wondering if are many online sites that allow you to search for characters via handwriting
recognition... using the mouse. I'm not fortunate enough to own a tablet PC or a PDA. I know about
http://www.nciku.com/, but sometimes the connection is spotty from my house. Are there others?
Thanks.



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zhwj -

What sort of OS are you using? Microsoft's IME comes with a handwriting input tool.












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HSK - I Hate Hanzi -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
I Hate Hanzi
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Page 1 of 8 1 23 > »






sthubbar -

As Gato mentioned here I'm a little stressed out lately.

First let me answer the obvious question: "If I hate them so much, why am I studying them?" Well,
it turns out that I really enjoy speaking Mandarin and I am convinced that if I want to progress
beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced to learn to read so I have no other choice
than to endure the torture of learning this ridiculous writing system.

Here is why I hate Hanzi.

They are not beautiful and if they are that's a bad thing.

The purpose of a written language is to convey a specific meaning to the reader, they are not
paintings. If ten people look at a beautiful painting it is likely that there will be ten
different meanings that will be ascribed to the painting. If I write an email to 10 friends and
say "Let's meet at 8pm Friday, outside the movie theater." I sure as heck hope there are not 10
different interpretations.

Furthermore, the more intricate or beautiful a script the harder it is to get the meaning. Look at
this text you are currently reading. Is it in an intricate calligraphic, brushed beautiful script
or is it in some more utilitarian script? I would bet that about 98% or more of the people reading
this are using a utilitarian script. The fancy scripts are only used for short passages where
there is little meaning being conveyed and it is more of a painting.

Hieroglyphics are beautiful because I'm not trying to understand their meaning, I just enjoy their
beauty.

Learning them is a painful processes of rote memorization

I have seen no evidence that there is a logical basis to the formation of the characters. Of
course there is some logic in trying to guess the meaning of some of the characters, but I would
say at best that is limited to 60% of the characters.

Furthermore, I see there are four facets to learning a character: Meaning, writing, pronunciation,
and tone. For me, the two most important are the pronunciation and the tone. I know of no system
that can make it systematic to learn the pronunciation and tones of 3000 characters. As far as my
understanding, Remembering the Kanji (RTK), is only concerned with using mnemonics to learn the
meaning and how to write the characters and I consider those the two least important aspects of
characters.

The more one learns the harder it becomes.

Unlike many other areas of learning where the more one learns the easier it becomes, with
characters it is just the opposite. As more and more characters are learned they start to appear
similar to previously learned characters. Some of the time they have a component or radical that
is the same, some of the times they look very similar but have a subtle difference.

With this newly learned character that looks like a previous character, there are six possible
pronunciations for this characters and there is no method to remember what it is without rote
memorization. Here are the possibilities of how to pronounce a new character that looks like a
previous character, from easiest to remember to hardest:

Same pronunciation, same tone
Same pronunciation, different tone
Similar pronunciation, same tone
Similar pronunciation, different tone
New pronunciation, same tone
New pronunciation, different tone.

My head is about to explode from all this!



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imron -

To me, the most difficult part about learning characters is the diminishing returns associated
with learning characters as the number of characters you learn increases. It gets harder and
harder to find the motivation to learn an extra 1000 characters when you know it will only
increase the amount of material you can read by a small margin.

As far as learning the characters go, I also consider there to be 4 facets, although they are
slightly different from yours. In order of importance to me, they are: meaning, pronunciation
(note I don't make a distinction between tones and pronunciation as I include tones as part of the
pronunciation, so different tones == different pronunciation), usage, and writing.

Personally, I don't think I'd find Chinese as interesting to learn if it wasn't for the characters.










atitarev -

I have to do more writing by hand in Chinese in order to succeed with my course and I am scared
despite the fact I like Chinese characters, no I don't hate Hanzi. They just disappear from my
head, if I don't write them. Complaining doesn't help, so I have to work harder. Passively,
perhaps I know between 1,500 and 2,000 characters but when it comes to writing I am able to
confidently remember maximum 300.










Lu -

I don't really get your point about how writing is not supposed to be beautiful. Sure, art can be
interpreted in different ways. But art is not the only thing that can be beautiful. A landscape
doesn't have any meaning, but it can be beautiful. A building can be good to live in and yet
beautiful. Different people have different handwriting, and some handwriting looks more beautiful
than others, but writing something in nicer handwriting, or even calligraphy, doesn't mean the
meaning is lost.

And hieroglyphs are written language just as much as Chinese characters are. You can't read them
and feel no need to learn to, but a lot of people could and can read them, and they aren't
hindered in that by the perceived beauty of the glyphs.

All that being said, I wish you good luck and much perseverance in learning the characters.
Learning them can be a pest, that's for sure, but they can also be very useful. (And there are
some gems. Check the last pages of the thread on 你 and 妳.)










susansun -

Hi,

I can understand your anger at learnig Chinese although I am a Chinese speaking standard mandarin.
It is said that Chinese is one of those most difficult languages to learn all over the world. I
dont know whether or not it is right but i do believe that 'cause I can speak english (or
chinglish) and a little Japanese. What I want to say is learning languages is always not
interesting as you just began when you step into a higher level. Just endure it. Good luck.

Regards,
Susan










magores -

For me, it's not the characters that cause problems. It's the multiple meanings, and the way words
are constructed.

I know the rules of stroke order. And the way my brain works, I remember that. I can see a new
character, and tell you how to write it properly.

And, I know the meaning of a fair number of characters.

But, its when you use a character, combined with other characters, to make a word, that I get
confused.

Without space between words, I can't always figure out where one ends, and another begins. Without
that visual clue, I can't always figure out what I'm looking at. If there was a space between
words, I'd be able to figure it out much easier.

Anyway... That's my contribution to the rant










IndhuRen -

I completely agree with the part about getting more confused as you learn more hanzi. I learned to
write around 300 hanzi in about 1 months time, I was following the book Rapid Literacy in Chinese
(Zhang PengPeng). Then I learned another 300 which took me 3 weeks and now I have realized that I
am totally confused and I absolutely dread learning the remaining 2400 hanzi which is supposed to
make me literate.

The amount of time, money and energy needed for an average learner to learn Mandarin is simply
astounding and infact I am wondering if all the effort is even worth it.










adrianlondon -



Quote:

I am wondering if all the effort is even worth it

That'll depend on why you're learning the language. If you're not finding it fun, and you don't
need to learn it in order to not starve, or something else equally fundamental, then stop learning.

You should be finding it fun! If you really hate learning the characters, concentrate on something
else (just speaking and listening; or reading if it's only writing you hate). Or pick a different
language, such as French or Spanish!










DrZero -



Quote:

I am convinced that if I want to progress beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced
to learn to read

Why are you convinced of that?



Quote:

Then I learned another 300 which took me 3 weeks and now I have realized that I am totally
confused and I absolutely dread learning the remaining 2400 hanzi which is supposed to make me
literate.

Curious, how is it that you are confused? Do you remember all 600 that you learned?










gato -



Quote:



Quote:

I am convinced that if I want to progress beyond the advanced-intermediate level than I am forced
to learn to read

Why are you convinced of that?

Because learning the sophisticated sentence structure and vocabulary needed for that level
requires knowing how to read (assuming by "advanced" we mean being able to communicate effectively
at a professional level). That's true in English and other European language. It's even more true
in Chinese because of the bigger gap between the Chinese written language and spoken, which makes
it harder to learn grammar and vocabulary entirely by listening.












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HSK Exam - Signatures and Avatars - Page 2 -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
Signatures and Avatars
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View Poll Results: What's your forums viewing pleasure?
I have both signatures and avatars turned on 15 78.95%
I only have signatures turned on 2 10.53%
I only have avatars turned on 0 0%
I have both turned off 2 10.53%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll



Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

Not sure how you'd have seen MartinF's avatar without them turned on. Maybe he sent you a pm? Not
sure if it would display then.

I was reading a topic that he had posted a reply to (or maybe he started it? I don't remember),
and saw his avatar. At the time I didn't realize that avatars were disabled by default, so I
remember thinking it was strange that he was the only one to have set an avatar. But I can't find
the post anymore, so it must've been a weird glitch. Anyways, no big deal - it was just a bit
unexpected at the time to see this Englishman grinning at me while browsing the forums. It made me
grin too.



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Chinese Character - How do you say... "cheer up" - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
How do you say... "cheer up"
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skylee -



Quote:

振作点了

I think 振作點吧 is more appropriate.



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noname -

振作起来 or 振作一点哦 or 开心点啦 or 别不开心啦 or 别垂头丧气的 or
没什么大不了的，别不高兴啦 or ...










grayedge -

加油,
雄起(idiom in Sichuan region)










W Jian -

嘿！精神点儿！（hey! jing shen dian'er. Used everywhere）

别吊儿郎当的！（bie diao'er lang dang de. Used in Beijing. The tone of this one is
complecated. Make sure that you won't use it if you were not an advanced speaker. But it would be
very funny. ）










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by W Jian

别吊儿郎当的！


Does it really mean 'cheer up'?










W Jian -

to skylee:

it's complecated to explain, but I'm sure the opposite word of 吊儿郎当的 is 精神的 ( adj
).










skylee -

As far as I know (which is of course not much), 吊兒郎當 means 滿不在乎 ->

http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/cgi-...ry=wholerecord

http://140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/Ge...eryString=%A6Q










ZhouNuosi -

how about 看开一点儿?

although I'm not sure myself what a good explanation of that would be...
"look at it more open minded"?

like when you break up with ur gf, somebody tells u that there are enough fish in the sea... I
guess that would be 看开 right?










W Jian -

PLZ, I have been using this word since I was a child, forget about that stupid dictionary. And I
have a question, why you guys deleted my former reply and didn't tell me?! you sucks!

Ban me this time, if you want!!!!










fireball9261 -

You generally speaks "别吊儿郎当的！" to people who are wasting their time on games and
drinks and who are not serious of anything. This is to get them to get serious and shape up in
life. These people are actually too happy in life.

"Cheer up" generally speaks to people who are sad, so "别吊儿郎当的！" should not be used
as "cheer up".

I also heard the use of this term "别吊儿郎当的！" since childhood.












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Chinese Speaking - Living in China -

> Wikis > Living in China > Living in China
Living in China's Discussion
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muyongshi -

I'm just looking at this article and thinking "Is there really anyway to write a wiki on living in
China???" I mean come on really! I think it should be broken down into smaller subsections but
even then it is hard because every location is different...

Any ideas on a good way to do this? To have it both completely informative and completely
relevant...



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gato -

There are many possibilities. One way is to have articles divided by topics, such as shopping,
renting an apartment, finding a soulmate, etc. Another is to divide the articles by cities. I
think it might be better to take the topic approach as there is a lot of overlaps between cities.










roddy -

This is a fair point. What I have been thinking about is coming up with a broad template for quick
city guides, aimed at people who will be living in the city, with a focus on students. Ie

City Name
Orientation (Size, layout, where are the universities in relation to the rest of the city)
Public transport (particularly getting from universities to areas of interest)
Shopping: Major supermarkets, foreign language books, Chinese learning material
Studying: Quick rundown of the universities / schools in the city
Bars / cafes:
Restaurants: (just a few notable ones, obviously can't cover every 家常菜 in town.
etc . . .

That could obviously be expanded a bit, although I wouldn't want it to get too comprehensive. The
idea would be that people would look at the template and think 'Hey, I can do that. It'll only
take 10 minutes', rather than feeling they have to commit to a week of research and writing.










muyongshi -

Well there is two ideas....










muyongshi -

What if we do both? We can do one Article called city guide and then also do articles by topic.

For the city guide what I was thinking was if we just do one article and then set it up like the
Visa section with a list at the top divided by province and then a clickable link that will take
you to a specified city within that province. That way it is all in one place and we don't have
cities floating all over cyber world.










md1101 -

can we not create a wiki entry until we actually have something to put in it? I keep clicking on
them and finding them all empty. One city guide is enough to give people the idea to write one up
for a city they know. they dont need encouragement by empty posts.










gato -

You got a point there, md.

Also maybe Roddy can create a sub-folder for the city guides so that they don't clutter up the
"Living in China" page.










cdn_in_bj -

Firstly, thanks Roddy and the rest of you for getting this in motion. I know we are just starting
out but I am sure that overtime it will evolve into something great and extremely useful.



Quote:

What if we do both? We can do one Article called city guide and then also do articles by topic.

I agree with this approach. My thought was that we could have general topics, for example, the
Visa article, and from this article we can then provide links to region-specific information. For
example, have a link to an article in the Beijing section that talks about the place by Andingmen
where you go to do your visa stuff.

Also, while editing the "Renting an apartment" page I ran into the 10000 character limit. Any
thoughts on if this limit should be raised (if that is even possible), or how we should organize
the articles to keep them under the limit?










roddy -

The character limit can be raised - personally I'm inclined to say that as a rule we'd be better
off breaking stuff into smaller articles when we hit the limit, or doing some ruthless editing,
but I know I'm isolated and out of touch with the kidz, so . . .










gato -

Maybe setting 20000 characters as a limit would be better. 10000 characters is roughly 1500 words,
a fairly small number. The apartment article isn't all that long yet. Guess we should split off
the location-specific info into other articles. Roddy should think of a way to present all these
off-shoot articles, if that's what we are going to do. Maybe separate folder/section, as I
mentioned before. Or maybe cross references -- e.g. apartment guide linking to guides for
individual cities.












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Learning Mandarin - Writing about God -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Writing about God
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geraldc -

For reasons I won't bore you with, I attended a Chinese church service the other day. One thing I
noticed was that in the version of the lords prayer that was printed on the service sheet, when
referring to Him upstairs, rather than using 你 they replaced the 人radical with 礻making
礻尓. It didn't seem to be standard, as they also had psalm 23 printed out and that used plain
你 when referring to the Almighty.

Any rules and regs when using 礻尓? Although seeing as I don't know how to type it, its unlikely
I'll be using it much.

I did also wonder why it was a variation of 你 and not 您 too.



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Xiao Kui -

I don't know how the tradition came but I've also seen it in Chinese churches, and that alternate
radical on the left side is the radical for "reveal" which was originally a pictograph of an altar
and often used to refer to a god or gods. So I think it's out of respect and to distinguish it
from 你 . 祂 is also commonly used as a substitution for 他 in hymns. I'd also add that it
doesn't seem to be necessary (at least not in all Christian traditions) because most Chinese
Bibles (simplified at least) simply use the regular 你 or 他 when referring to God or Christ.
Also, my simplified IME (NJ Star) doesn't have either of these characters - I had to switch to
traditional to find them - makes me wonder if they're more popular in HK, Taiwan, and overseas
than they are in the mainland.










xianu -

I have actually seen ni that way in a Wang Fei song. I interpretted it as a way to express the
reverence and love she had for the object of her song (love song, of course). I figured it was
just a sort of poetic made-up character that made a play on the meanings of words.










muyongshi -

The history is quite obvious of this usage.

Missionary's way back in the day didn't like the association of god being put with the man or
woman radical so they opted to edit and use the "god" radical so as to describe that he is not of
the human persuasion. It stayed longer in taiwan and hong kong due to the openness of the catholic
church.










rootfool -

Agree with muyongshi.
In the past 祂 was not a character in chinese,and 祢 also didn't mean GOD.祢 is another form of
禰 ,It means put your father's 灵位(sorry but I don't know how to say it in english) in the
temple(生曰父，亡曰考，入庙曰襧).
Look at this character:禅，社，祇，神，祖，祈.They all have the radical 示 .In chinese
it means something about GOD.So I think that's the reason people opt 祢 or 祂 for GOD.












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Learn Mandarin online - 2007-2008 schoolyear dates (Yunnan Normal University) -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools
2007-2008 schoolyear dates (Yunnan Normal University)
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wanderliz -

Hi,
Anyone know the date fall2007 semester at Yunnan Normal starts (and the dates for registration). I
can't seem to find a calender or get a reply from them...
Thanks for your help



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cliveloughlin -

Hi there

I have an offer for Yunnan Normal (BA Chinese Language & Lit) - it starts from 3rd Sept. 07.

They are really terrible at answering emails so you better call if you have questions:
0086-871-5516251 - speak to Ms Liu Xin. I'm not sure if the deadline has passed already!










wanderliz -

thanks for your reply clive.
they've already accepted my app, i'm just waiting to receive my visa materials from them.
do you know if September 3rd is the date classes actually start? I know there are
registration/placement tests beforehand, just need to know how far in advance. (sorry to be so
specific - trying to buy plane tickets that maximize my time before I need to be there)
thanks for the phone number too










cliveloughlin -

Hi
As far as I know the registration covers the placement test...not sure though as it doesnt say -
but you must be available to register during the dates above otherwise 'you will be regarded as
giving up this admission' (from the notice of admission that they sent me).
Best call to clarify
cj










wanderliz -

beating a dead horse...

"dates" above? your reply makes it sound like perhaps it gives a date range (such as 3rd september
through some other date, or some other date through 3rd september.) if so i just need to know what
that "some other date" is
thanks very much cj
Liz










mr.stinky -

http://www.icis.cn/en_Article.asp?ArticleId=169

from their website; out of date, but fall semester schedule should be similar.

the whole process will take about three days, due to disorganization and their new,
improved 4-1/2 hour lunch break.

the "placement test" only takes five minutes where they have you read samples from
the textbooks.










cliveloughlin -

sorry - i forgot to include the registration dates: between 27-31 August...that was the date range
that i meant!
didn't you get their admission notice yet?
hope it all goes smoothly










wanderliz -

thanks, that's just what i was looking for.
no worries, they've mailed my docs, just didn't mention anything about dates in the email they
sent me and i'm trying to buy my ticket now
so, guess i'll see you this fall. thanks again for your help - i owe you a beer or something

Liz










kasandrea -

Hi Everyone,

Many of you probably know this already, but just in case...

Yunnan Normal University now has an updated calendar posted on the English version of their
website:

http://www.icis.cn/en_Article.asp?ArticleId=273

22 Aug -- 29 Aug 2007: Registration, checking visas, placement test, and paying tuition
28 Aug: Orientation
29 Aug: "Take physical check"
30 Aug -- 31 Aug: Buy textbooks and pick up timetables
3 Sep: "Class starts according to your timetable"

I know I was confused at first too though. They sent me an email on May 14th telling me they were
sending my acceptance letter and visa forms, but they never told me anything about the school
calendar until June 24th. (I am grateful that they took the time to email me back though. ).
Anyway, Ms. Liu Xin also told me that the semester ends on January 11th and that their National
Holiday goes from 1 Oct to 7 Oct 2007.

I'm getting a little worried because my JW202 and Notice of Admission haven't arrived yet. Should
I be concerned? Maybe if it doesn't arrive within the next week or so I'll write them another
email or actually call.

I'm excited to start this new school year (if my paperwork comes in time that is. Hehe). I've
never been to China before so this will definitely be an adventure. Maybe I will meet some of you
there sometime.










jeffofarabia -

Does anyone know if there are summer 2008 dates?












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roddy -

That was my main worry about trying to use the forums for a wiki type thing. However it might be
possible for a 'wiki administrator' to make regular copies fairly easily.










roddy -

Also, there's a product by one of the companies gato linked in the first post which is a full wiki
installed natively on Vbulletin rather than bridging between a wiki install and VB - this would
(assuming the product is solid) would make things easier to manage and allow searching across VB
and the wiki, which is very important.










gato -



Quote:

a full wiki installed natively on Vbulletin

Yes, this add-on -- NuWiki -- looks fairly promising.

Here's an example of it in use. Not a very well done one, but an example nonetheless.
http://forums.livingwithstyle.com/sh...p?t=1869929479










roddy -

Gato, can I assume you'll be running this - I'll do the initial set up and deal with any technical
issues, but someone else is going to have to decide who is / isn't editing, decide on scope of the
thing, choose to retain or delete edits, etc.










gato -

Sure, I can take the lead as it gets off the ground. Hopefully it'll be easy enough that I won't
have to do too much.

Are you going to set Nuwiki? It looks fairly good for what it is.
Here is another site using it:
http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/...ead.php?t=4466










roddy -

Seems like the best option at the moment. It's not free, but the forums wallet can just about
stretch to it. I wouldn't want to use anything that didn't integrate very closely with the forums,
but that seems to. May loose some wiki functionality, but that's a price to pay.

Have a think about where you want to start in the first instance. I'd suggest that keeping it
fairly limited and focused at first would be a good idea, rather than risking spreading things too
thinly. Perhaps a guide for people starting to study Chinese, or for those planning to come to
China to study, etc.










roddy -

Just to update - we've basically got a wiki set up, it's just not on public view yet as there
isn't really anything in there and I'd like to have at least some content before unveiling,
although if I don't get around to putting anything in there in the next few days I might as well
just go ahead.

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others
could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something
substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.










cdn_in_bj -



Quote:

Currently there are two wikis, a 'Beginner's Guide to Chinese' and a 'Living in China'. Others
could be added, but I'm inclined to start small and then expand when we have something
substantial. Suggestions for extra / alternative topics to start with are welcome.

Hey Roddy, I think that's a great idea. I was also wondering if it would be possible to
incorporate in the wiki an index to the most useful topics in the forum. For example, 'Living in
China' could include a link to the "Your accomodation in China" topic. And this index could get
updated by wiki users.

I know there is the search feature, but I am amazed at the amount of random but useful information
I come across on the forums just because someone posted a link from a different topic. I guess
what I am proposing is a more organized way to browse the forums. This would be a lot of work for
a single person to maintain, but with a community of wiki users it should maintain itself nicely.
What do you think?










simonlaing -

Hey Roddy et. al,

Sorry, I've been busy latelyI can help work on the living in China section. Should I PM or email
it to Gato.
Some subtopics could be :
Accomodation
Teaching Jobs- issues and support
Other Jobs- links, issues and support
Places to live
Food
Transportation

I agree linking to past discussions we've had on the topics would be helpful. Perhaps someone
could help by doing searchs on these topics and listing the links and basic descriptions.
What do you think?
have fun,
Simon












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