Chinese Mandarin - Characters you just can't get right, damnit! - Page 3 -

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Characters you just can't get right, damnit!
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studentyoung -



Quote:

If there are such festivals in Mainland, why aren't they listed as public holidays like Taiwan,
Hong Kong, Macau and Korea do?

Saint Valentine's Day and Women’s Day aren’t listed as public holidays in Taiwan, Hong Kong,
Macau, Korea and even America but can you say that there are no Saint Valentine’s Day and
Women’s in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, Korea and America? No matter Qing Ming, Dragon Boat,
Mid-Autumn and Chong Yang Festivals are public holidays or not, they are in our hearts and we
still observe them and take them as part of our traditional culture, just as Saint Valentine’s
Day and Women’s Day are in people’s heart, no matter they are public holidays or not!

But Ian_Lee, you don't observe these traditional festivals just because they are listed as public
holidays, right? I wonder if you observe these traditional festivals in Hawaii? You see, they are
not listed as public holidays in Hawaii. I hope you do, but ...who knows?



Quote:

And young student, even with Opium War, Christmas is being observed by many people in China now!

Yes! And at least, we won’t ask, “Why does Christmas become the festival of weirdo”.

Thanks!



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Ian_Lee -



Quote:

I wonder if you observe these traditional festivals in Hawaii? You see, they are not listed as
public holidays in Hawaii.

You are right. I don't observe these festivals in Hawaii because they are not listed as public
holidays in Hawaii. My kids don't even know what mid-Autumn Festival is before I took them to Hong
Kong to spend the Mid-Autumn Festival there.



Quote:

And at least, we won’t ask, “Why does Christmas become the festival of weirdo”.

Do you mean most people in China only have the IQ of my 12-yr old daughter who can't tell the
difference between X'mas and the festival of weirdo?










studentyoung -



Quote:

My kids don't even know what mid-Autumn Festival is before I took them to Hong Kong to spend the
Mid-Autumn Festival there.

Oh, really? And your kids won’t even know that Mid-Autumn Festival originates in mainland China,
if you don’t take them to China mainland. Of course, I see that you will keep hiding truth and
history from your kids. So, go on!



Quote:

Do you mean most people in China only have the IQ of my 12-yr old daughter who can't tell the
difference between X'mas and the festival of weirdo?

Take it easy, Ian_Lee! I think it has nothing to do with the IQ of most people in China, but it is
very clear that your daughter’s question is the very result of your cultural -revolution-like
educational style.

Thanks!










Ian_Lee -



Quote:

And your kids won’t even know that Mid-Autumn Festival originates in mainland China, if you
don’t take them to China mainland.

In the days that even Mainland tourists flock to buy Moon Cakes in HK and are afraid to eat those
made in their homeland, taking my kids to learn about Mid-Autumn Festival in Hong Kong is a safer
bet.



Quote:

your daughter’s question is the very result of your cultural -revolution-like educational style.

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution. Without Cultural Revolution, my daughter would not get
confused with X'mas and the Festival of Weirdo!










imron -



Quote:

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution.

Actually, more correctly you should say that it's the product of the CCP. The characters were
simplified before the start of the cultural revolution, so cultural revolution or not, it would
still be the festival of weirdos. Although there were further simplifications made after the
cultural revolution, these further simplifications were later retracted due to being unpopular.










studentyoung -



Quote:

In the days that even Mainland tourists flock to buy Moon Cakes in HK and are afraid to eat those
made in their homeland, taking my kids to learn about Mid-Autumn Festival in Hong Kong is a safer
bet.

But you won’t deny that moon cakes, like Mid-autumn Festival, originates in mainland China, too,
right? Without the traditional culture in mainland China, how come Hong Kong has mid-autumn
festival and moon cakes?



Quote:

圣 is a by-product of Cultural Revolution. Without Cultural Revolution, my daughter would not get
confused with X'mas and the Festival of Weirdo!

Your imagination is fascinating, Ian-Lee! And you even try to use “Cultural Revolution” as an
excuse to cover your cultural revolution to your kids. It is a shame!

Thanks!










Ian_Lee -



Quote:

moon cakes, like Mid-autumn Festival, originates in mainland China, too, right? Without the
traditional culture in mainland China

Straighten your logic. Something that originates there does not necessarily flourish there. A lot
of things originate in China (which has nothing to do with PRC since they were there hundreds or
even thousands years earlier), so what?

The classical case is that Kyoto, which modeled exactly on the Tang City of ChangAn (now Xian),
preserves more of the Tang tradition than Xian does.

And please save whatever your argument about the traditional culture in Mainland. Whatever left of
the tradition in Mainland has been done away during the Cultural Revolution.



Quote:

you even try to use “Cultural Revolution” as an excuse to cover your cultural revolution to
your kids.

It is your injection first of "Cultural Revolution" and "Opium War" in this purely academic
discussion (I don't blame you since that is the common drawback of most people from Mainland). So?
Well, unlike you guys in Mainland, I am not that lunatic to teach my kids that "Father and Mother
are not as close to me as Chairman Mao" or put a "ox-ghost-reptile-God" labeled dunce cap on your
father or teacher before you curse them! Who should be more shameful? Anyway, the one who knew
"Shame" had already swum thru the shark-infested water to Hong Kong!










studentyoung -



Quote:

Straighten your logic. Something that originates there does not necessarily flourish there. A lot
of things originate in China (which has nothing to do with PRC since they were there hundreds or
even thousands years earlier), so what?

So what? So you can’t deny history! Do you mean you deny history very often? I think
饮水思源 (not to forget one's origins) is our tradition, right?



Quote:

So? Well, unlike you guys in Mainland, I am not that lunatic to teach my kids that "Father and
Mother are not as close to me as Chairman Mao" or put a "ox-ghost-reptile-God" labeled dunce cap
on your father or teacher before you curse them! Who should be more shameful?

Hehe. Who is more shameful? Those who couldn’t stand the cultural revolution and tried to swim
to Hong Kong are not shameful. But the one who tries to mock their hard situation should consider
where he is shameful or not.

The last words I want to say to you on this thread: Please study more, before you post again,
Ian_Lee. I can understand why you don’t like the Cultural Revolution, but it doesn’t mean that
you have the right to make rumors. You love Hong Kong and HKers, but it is not an excuse for you
to slander mainland Chinese people and their culture!

Thanks!
___________________________________________
P.S. It is my last post on the thread!










HashiriKata -



Quote:

It is my last post on the thread!

That's good! Ian_Lee also, let's get on with "Characters we can't get right". Are there other
confusing characters, anyone? .










wushijiao -



Quote:

another one is 吏 lì which I always seem to read as shǐ.

I'm reading a book in which I always meantally read 胥吏 (xu1li4, petty official) as "dan4shi3".














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Chinese language - One group class per week? Pay as you go? -

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Chinese in Beijing
One group class per week? Pay as you go?
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feebie -

I work so I need to study Mandarin 1 class a week.

Prefer.

1 class per week (evenings or weekends)
In a group
Haidian, Xizhimen (I live near Xiang Shan - far away)
pay as you go (well not too far in advance)

Im a beginner but not total beginner. Done 60hrs know approx 120-200 characters

need to improve on pronunciation.


I have heard that Global Village you can't do one class a week is that true???

Thanks for your help



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Chinese Tutor - How to send application fee to Tsinghua? -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Universities and Schools > Studying
Chinese in Beijing
How to send application fee to Tsinghua?
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arozenshtein -

Hi everyone,

So I've filled out the form to apply to Tsinghua in the fall for language study, but I don't know
how to send the application fee. How does one write a check for Chinese currency...?

Thanks,
Alan



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Bastonata -

hi alan - I had the same problem with Beida, but my chinese friends told me just to send a
personal check, because if they have a bank account with the Bank of China, they can most
certainly cash it. They send money to their parents this way. Also, because application fees are
small amounts, its not worth wiring the money anyway. But, you should also hear from others,
because Qinghua might not like a check.










imron -

On the info sheet for General Visiting Students at Beida, it specifically states:

Quote:

Application Fee:400RMB, pay in cash or Yinlian bank card. Foreign currency or check is not
acceptable.

I imagine the same will be true for Tsinghua, however you're probably best off calling them to
find out (don't rely on email, as most Chinese universities are incredibly unreliable/unresponsive
when it comes to email communication). The foreign student office phone numbers can be found here.










PinkxMinkx -

I just sent the money in rmb,
if there is a bank of china, maybe you can exchange currency and mail that in ?
btw, i m planning on going to beijing for fall semester too !










Dani_man -

Hi there,

What you should do is to send a bank check.
you go to your bank and ask them to issue a check for Tsinghua University (or maybe they have a
special account for that - ask them), with the amount of 400rmb (or for the equivalent amount in
Dollars if your bank can't issue it using RMB - again, ask the office).
You can send it by normal mail (rather be registered, though), cause only the addressee can use
it, and you also can cancel it in any time. (in my case at least, you better check it in your
bank).
in simple words - it's a check from your bank to Tsinghua. you don't have to mess up with sending
cash or having troubles by using your own account.










Jamoldo -

send cash. Don't tell the post office. My post office employee kind of said you weren't allowed to
but then I explained that BNU (and other unis here) only accept cash. The guy at the post office
shrugged his shoulders and was like "no worries, lets just say I didn't hear you say anything..."

One month later I had gotten my acceptance letter.

Use cash, put it in a separate envelope which will go inside the A4 envelope which will have your
application materials and you're set.










mayho -

Anyone know who do I address the bank cheque for my BNU application fee? Should I just address it
to: 'Office of International Scholars and Students' Affairs' - I think that's what it says on the
BNU Application Form.

Thanks!












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Learning Chinese - just one room for rent near BLCU!!!! -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China > Classifieds
just one room for rent near BLCU!!!!
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Cheri -

hello.
im a Chinese gril live with my boy friend. we live in 2bedrooms. now i want to rent out the larger
room which covers about 18sqm.it have wood floor, TV,air-conditioner,internet,.and in the living
room there have washing machine,fridger,shower.......the price is 1600kuai/month.and we are so
easy-going and friendly, if you want to learn Chinese i can teach you ,and if you are interest in
it pls. call me 13466698918 or send message to me babyface1594@hotmail.com



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Speak Chinese - I dont understand tones at all -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
I dont understand tones at all
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dynaemu -

I need help in the mandarin tones apartment.. I never hear them, songs, movie, when people speak,
anything.. its very weird... maybe I just dont know theyre there? Im very confused on the tones..
i just never hear them and it makes me feel odd when i try to speak chinese to someone.. anyone
have any help for me? >_<

Thanks



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mirgcire -

Hmm ... I think I have the same problem as you. Just to be sure, let me ask one question: do your
friends complain when you sing? If so, we likely suffer from the same affliction: "tone deafness".
After seeing your post I googled this and found the following link
"http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2002/jan/tonedeaf/020116.tonedeaf.html".

I am not sure how tone deaf I am, but I am rarely able to determine the tone of a word correctly.
To say it more precisely, I am correct only about 50-60% of the time. Sometimes I wonder if I
should just give up, but usually chinese people understand what I am saying.










dynaemu -

People dont complain when I sing, they like it..

Some do say im off-tune though..










Kong Junrui -

Well how long have you been learning Chinese? Of course, it's not gonna come to you really
quickly, and I too would get confused with tones early in my learning, but I'm in my third year of
studying this language and can much better identify tones in speech, though I know what you mean
about the tones seeming like they're not there... In regular language anyway. But as far as I can
tell, they're there but they come so natural that they're just kind of blended in with everything
else, kind of like how in English, you don't properly enunciate every single sound in a word in
regular speech. Sometimes words tend to be merged together but people still understand.

Or maybe it isn't like that.










imron -

Go to this page and download the files for the 4 different tones of ma (don't worry about the one
that says BPMF spelling for now). Listen to each one 20-30 times then move on to the next one and
see if you can tell the difference.

Being tone deaf has little to do with it. We use tones in English all the time, just in a
different way from the Chinese. Everytime you ask a question you typically will be changing the
tone of your sentence.

Compare for example the difference in pronunciation between the following sentences (especially
note the way you end the sentence):

He doesn't like football.

He doesn't like football?

For the second one, your intonation should rise towards the end, and by changing the tone, you are
changing slightly the meaning of what you are saying i.e. you change the sentence from a statement
to a question, or perhaps even an indication of surprise.

With Chinese tones, it's basically the same principle, except instead of working on a sentence
level, it works at a word level (or perhaps more correctly, a syllable level), and the difference
in meaning between the different tones is far greater than just changing from a statement to a
question.

If you're just beginning to learn Chinese, it is well worth spending the time to get your head
around the tones. You don't need to get them 100%, but you do need to be able to mostly
differentiate them both when you hear them and when you say them. If you don't get them right from
the beginning, then it will be close to impossible to fix them up later on.










<<恒心>> -

Sounds like you need to do some dictation (听写) practice so that you can begin to build
sound/meaning associations, that will force you to become aware of the tones. If you take a
recording of something and try to write out what you hear in characters, you'll immediately be
forced to choose which tone/character combo to represent what you heard (or what you think you
heard).

Since only one specific combination can be correct, and since the context will only go so far in
helping you to guess at which specific combinations is correct, you'll inevitably (and quickly) be
forced to make distinctions based on what you hear. With enough practice of this sort, I'd be
surprised if your awareness and accuracy in distinguishing tones didn't improve rapidly. Give it a
try!










mirgcire -

Does anyone have experience with software that can record your voice and provide visual feed back
on tone changes? I think it is possible to develop this type of software: it needs to take a whole
sentence and represent the tone changes in time and provide a play back so you can see where/when
the tone is incorrect.

One place that I have difficulty is saying 2 fourth tones followed by a first tone. For some
reason I just can't get it right ... (yet!). So this type of SW would be useful for overcoming
this challenge.










necroflux -

I give the same advice to everyone I encounter who is in the beginning stage of learning Chinese.
Do not begin learning until you can recognize the tones at least 80-90% of the time. If you start
learning words without the tones then you will develop a (delusional) habit of thinking that the
tones are unnecessary - and ask anyone on this forum who have made that mistake, ditching that
habit is a bitch.

So step 1, take a deep breath, and realize it's not that hard - you just need the right tools.

I present to you the right tool. Play this quiz over and over and over until you can ace it or
close on a regular basis. It shouldn't take long. You might go crazy in the process, but this will
be good practice for the insanity that lies ahead. Just kidding it's a blast.

As for actually speaking the tones properly, (especially in regards to sequences), I don't think
you need to be in a rush there. As long as you can recognize the tones when you hear them, the
speaking ability will come - because you ought to be able to recognize the tone of your own voice
after you speak. That actually takes a bit of skill in and of itself but it comes with practice,
as does everything. But indeed you will want to be checking yourself consistently as you speak, as
to whether or not the tones are correct. This is best done in the beginning stages with the help
of a native speaker, find/hire one at all costs.

I have found that with a good amount of discipline I have to think much less about the tones after
two years of study, so by putting that pressure on yourself at the beginning it certainly pays off.

Regarding tone deafness, I don't think the concept is related to tones as they are used in the
Chinese language. As far as I understand tone deafness, it relates to the perception of two or
more individual tones and whether or not they "match". When using tones in language, you only need
to be able to perceive relative change in pitch. If you can start singing at one note, and hear
your voice go up or down in pitch, then you have all of the tools necessary to speak and
understand Chinese. For proof just look at the Chinese people - if tone deafness does indeed make
speaking Chinese impossible, why is it that 1.5 billion people all have no problem speaking?










mirgcire -

Necroflex,

I think your advice is good, and the majority of beginners would do well to follow it, but I am
not a beginner.

It may be hard for you to comprehend but some people are actually less skilled than you when it
comes to hearing ability. Your point about the Chinese population is interesting. First of all,
your estimation of the population is off by about 200 million. And second, I think is is unlikely
that you are an expert on the percentage of Chinese that suffer from speech disorders. I also
seriously doubt you have any back ground in the area of tone deafness, speech therapy, or teaching
Chinese - but then, neither do I

I have been studying Chinese for over two years now and I am not a casual student. I study
everyday and I work hard on listening, practicing, reading, writing, etc. I have a reasonably high
vocabulary and I keep up with my class in terms of the visual language. But I have profound
difficulties hearing tones - both in my own voice and in others.

I have used the pinyin practice web site and can score okay, but not consistently. I still have a
hard time getting a score of over 80%. Also, I listen to chinesepod a lot and when Jenny
introduces new words I always try to guess the tones and often repeat several times to be sure.
However, I can only get about 60% of those correct. And no one speaks mandarin more clearly than
Jenny.

The method I use to express tones is by paying attention to which part of my body is resonating:
1st = mouth, 2nd = head, 3rd = chest, 4th = throat. It works well enough to get by. But this
method doesn't seem to be much help when I try to use some combinations of tones.

I feel pretty silly trying to make a solid case for how deaf I am, but this is the second time
this week that some has dismissed my difficulties as simply not paying enough attention. I am
going to follow up next week with a friend of mine who is a speech therapist to see if you can
provide me with any insights.

I am sure my condition is not common, and I hope that dynaemu and others can make good use of your
practical suggestions.

Now about that software that provides feedback on tones ..... ?
Has anyone out there tried such a thing?










imron -

@mirgcire - I tend to support Necroflux's point of view, and hold the same opinions about learning
tones, but at the same time am always willing to keep an open mind. I agree that sometimes it's
difficult to comprehend others having difficulty with something that comes relatively easy to
oneself, so I'm sorry if perhaps I came across as dismissive in my previous post.

However, regarding the points I made in that post, when you are speaking or listening to English
can you distinguish between questions and statements based on their tone?

For example I've attached a file of myself saying "you can't hear tones" both as a question and as
a statement. If you are listening to this can pick which is which? I ask because for me, this was
the base I used when I started learning tones and how to differentiate them i.e. I started by
analysing the way I processed tones in English and by paying attention to that I then adapted that
process to Chinese.

Anyway, such a process worked quite effectively for me, so I'd be interested in hearing your
thoughts (or prior experiences) in using such a technique.

Regarding software for tone feedback, this thread makes mention of a tool called Speech Analyzer
which looks to offer feedback you're looking for. I've not used it myself, so I can't vouch for
its effectiveness.












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Chinese School - 《双手的温柔》江美琪 - Page 2 -

> Announcements > Bug Reports / Help
《双手的温柔》江美琪
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Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >






roddy -

Koneko, you're also clogging up the front page with posts that will be incomprehensible to the new
(or returning visitor), so I'm going to merge this latest batch. If you can't or don't want to
write up a bit of background info and personal reaction to a song, please refrain from posting it.
See here, here or here for examples of how it could be done.

Please also keep it to one per day. We need to keep an element of balance, and the current rate of
posting isn't balanced.

Incidentally, you're not a victim of the autocracy. The "autocracy "is providing a forum you seem
to enjoy using, at no charge, and requesting that you (and everyone) follow a few simple rules to
ensure that more people can get value out of it.

Comments on moderation (or editorial policy as I now think of it) can come by pm or email,
guidelines for posting song lyrics are here, comments on them welcome in that topic - they're
designed to make the forums as valuable as possible for all members so I'm happy to improve them.



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imron -

I think the key here is balance and relevance. Koneko, you should keep in mind that people are
coming to read /showthread.php?t=9711
Because there’s no clear regulation about:
“Please also keep it to one per day. We need to keep an element of balance, and the current rate
of posting isn't balanced.”
我觉得这里有一个时间先后的问题/ I think there’s a problem on the time and
sequence. If people at first wrote clearly “Please also keep it to one per day”, then of
course everyone on this forum should obey this. But if not, then if someone post “a large amount
of songs in small amount of time”, the administrative level perhaps should AT FIRST make it
clearly, and 从那时以后/THEN merge the relevant posts into one thread, instead of merging
them at the same time speaking to people “Please also keep it to one per day”.

I think there’s no big problems, just 沟通方式的问题/communication misunderstanding.

Now back to the first post, recommendation on Chinese songs:
I cannot remember when they were recorded, why do I like them? Nothing specially, just because
when I hear these songs, I think about all my friends, which makes me feel warm.
干杯，朋友 by 田震 (lyric included)
http://www.haoting.com/htmusic/114318ht.htm
朋友 by 周华健 (lyric included)
http://www.haoting.com/htmusic/16315ht.htm

大家和解吧










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by elina

As a leader of large-sized forums with members of 11690 at present,


I object to the use of the term "leader" here. Just the term, elina, it is not personal.










roddy -

Couple of things I'd like to clarify here. I'd merged (and pm'd with Koneko about merging) a bunch
of similar topics earlier in the other cultures forum earlier. I didn't get the impression there
was any objection. Later four or five topics, with even less content and the 'victim of the
autocracy' tag were added to the music forum within a couple of hours. So I guess there was an
objection, although I'm still mystified as to what it is. I merge similar topics constantly and as
Imron has explained there's even more reason to do so when a number are posted in quick succession.

Run, host, maybe manage. Not lead, please, makes me sound like I should be giving speeches

Will move this out of the music forum. Should maybe close it but will leave it in case Koneko
feels she has something to add.










elina -



Quote:


Originally Posted by Skylee

I object to the use of the term "leader" here. Just the term, elina, it is not personal.




Quote:


Originally Posted by Roddy

Run, host, maybe manage. Not lead, please, makes me sound like I should be giving speeches


I’m sorry for using the character of “leader”. I thought these forums are owned by Roddy
personally, now I know I was wrong to say that, and have just changed the term in my previous post.



Quote:

with even less content and the 'victim of the autocracy' tag were added

我觉得这种做法也不是很妥当的/ I don’t think this action is appropriate.










roddy -

They are owned by me I suppose, I just have 领导恐惧症 .

There wouldn't be anything here without the people who contribute, I fully realize that and I've
said so previously. I hereby say it again.










Koneko -

Relax everybody!

It's just a small case.
There are more important things for us to worry about...

I am an optimistic idealist.

I respect Roddy's decisions to merge my posts but I also complied with his what-when-where-who-why
requests in my subsequent posts in an easy-to-understand format.

I respect freedom of speech. Hence, everyone should be given a chance to express their thoughts
freely.

Must move this thread back to Music lest the lessons be forgotten.

K. says relax










roddy -



Quote:

K. says relax
__________________
There's reason in rebellion. Revolution is not a crime!
革命无罪 造反有理!

Relaxed rebellion, is it?

I don't see how you can claim to respect the decision to merge the posts when you made it
necessary for me to do it twice. If you object, say so.












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Chinese Character - Podcasts other than antiwave - Page 6 -

> Learning Chinese > Resources and General Study Issues
Podcasts other than antiwave
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wushijiao -

I just took a trip to Luoyang and Shanghai and was able to get 德国之声 as of a few days ago.
I'd suprised it took them this long.



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roddy -

Hmmm, iTunes still can't reach it directly, need the proxy. The BBC's ChinaReel still survives.

Edit: And let me take this opportunity to reiterate how good this radio show is - you get solid
global news (with a forgivable focus on Germany), it doesn't pull any punches on China but doesn't
go on and on about human rights stuff like RFA, and the magazine content is generally interesting
and well produced. And there's hours of it every day. BBC take note!

Edit Edit: I wonder if this is due to coverage of the arrest of Hu Jia - normally I'm not keen to
link blocks with news events, but this sounds plausible to me. RFA and ChinaReel have both given
it ample airtime, can't get the latest programme from our German friends yet though.










roddy -

Is anyone else having problems with 德国之声？I have trouble at the moment even through a
VPN, with 404 errors for a lot of episodes - of the 9 that itunes is currently listing, I can only
download 4, and it's showing nothing at all for Jan 4th. Kind of annoying. Not sure if it's a
problem their end or something that itunes is doing.

The iTunes store isn't showing anything past the 3rd, but it can often be slow to update.










wushijiao -

Downloaded in less than a minute, here in HK. So at least right now, it's not their tech problem.










roddy -

Seems to be a bit better now, though still odd. Ie for the 6th I have four programs listed,
晨间，晚间一套上，晚间一套下，晚间二套. The first three seem to have downloaded
fine, but the 晚间二套 just gives me a 404 error via iTunes. As long as I'm getting one or two
a day I'm happy, but I miss it if it doesn't work at all as it's probably my main source of news
now (which explains why I'm so well informed on criminal behavior among young immigrants in
Germany, and how the nation's athletes are preparing for the Olympics.)

Not sure about all this German pop music they're playing just now though










roddy -

德国之声 is working fine now. Not sure what the problem was, but I don't think it was blocked.

How many of us are regularly listening to Radio Free Asia? I listen every now and then, basically
if I've finished 德国之声 and ChinaReel and still want something to listen to. I have to admit
I love the bits where they phone up random police officers and officials in the middle of nowhere
and ask them about various injustices. One guy just claimed he couldn't understand the question,
and then later someone else ( I think was actually one of the wronged) just yelled
你管这个干啥？ down the phone and hung up. You also get some gems like:

Interviewer: So it is true you've arrested 15 villagers and are holding them in your police
station.
Police: Yes, they're criminals.
Interviewer: What did they do?
Police: Crime.

Ok, I'm obviously both paraphrasing and translating, but it's worth listening to.










Long Pan -

Apart from the content, just curious to have your opinion about the difference of language between
德国之声 and some local news like CRI ?










roddy -

I listen to little, if any, mainland news, read newspapers now and then. I've never noticed any
differences. I suspect a lot of the people working there are mainland-born anyway - I remember one
listener emailing in to congratulate the Germans on how good their Chinese was, and the presenter
saying thank you very much, but he grew up in Beijing, so . . .










bagz007 -

Here's a website I meant to pass along a while back when I was more active in the forums
(apologies if it's been posted elsewhere):

http://www.bookast.com

It's a Taiwanese company that does book summaries on audio. They used to do a weekly podcast on
iTunes with MP3s. The content is still free after you register, but, unfortunately, you can only
download it in protected WMA format and listen to it through an internet connection. (At least it
appears that way--someone pls tell me if I've missed something.)

Most of their stuff falls into the business/leadership category. May not be everyone's bag, but at
least it adds to the variety of our options out there...I find the stuff VERY challenging...










roddy -

Does anyone else find themselves really enjoying Princess Remy's podcasts? I didn't used to like
them so much, but I'm finding that after a week of generally only listening to the BBC and
德国之声 going on about current affairs and human rights and what have you, ten or twenty
minutes of Remy nattering randomly about her favorite foods and what she thinks about James Bond
on a Friday are greatly appreciated. Kudos also for reliability - she must have been running for
years now, with a podcast very nearly every single Friday.

The website is here for anyone who wants to take a look, plus RSS feed and you can also find her
on iTunes - search 'princess remy'












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Learn Chinese - Writing Chinese characters, but left-handed... - Page 2 -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Writing Chinese characters, but left-handed...
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Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






Gulao -

One of my classmates in high school wrote Chinese left handed, and didn't seem to have much
trouble. From time to time she would ask if it were possible to fix a character's stroke order to
make the character more natural for her, but for the most part it wasn't necessary.



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DoraYao -

I am left-handed too and have no problem with strokes.










renzhe -

I write left-handed too, and use the proper stroke order.

Since I'm close to ambidextrous (can write a with my right hand and the left-right preference is
almost split down the middle with me, depending on the task at hand), I have considered learning
to write Chinese characters right-handed, but it seemed too silly considering that I write
everything else with my left hand.

The characters will probably look a bit different. Right-handed horizontal strokes tend to slope
slightly upward, which is difficult to reproduce with the left hand, and that's one example. But
it really doesn't play that much of a role, you can write well with the left hand too.

Perhaps one day, I'll try to write with my right hand too. It's quite funny, I can write the Latin
alphabet with my right hand, it just looks a bit uglier and takes a bit longer, but I have no
difficulty doing it -- though I have spent very little time practicing this. I can also take a
left-handed guitar and play chords and scales although I have never practiced this either. I think
that left-handed people find it easier to do things with both hands than right-handed people.
Perhaps because so many things in our lives are designed for right-handed people, so we get ample
practice.










fireball9261 -

I am right-handed, and I always smudged my writings in the traditional ways (up and down, then
right to left) when I was a kid. So I always wished to be left-handed.










JimmySeal -

I'm left handed and I started learning to write Asian characters about 8 years ago. It has never
been a problem when writing with a pencil or pen, but I've found it all but impossible to make
characters look good when using a brush or long-tipped pen. In those cases, the push vs. pull
distinction really comes into play.

I started brush-calligraphy classes last February and I use my right hand exclusively for those. I
just feel there's no other way.

I would suggest at least encouraging your daughter to try writing with her right hand every now
and then. Right-handedness is a very useful skill in the 漢字文化圏.

I'm also in favor of using the correct stroke order, no matter which hand she's using to write.










Hero Doug -

It's a little off topic now, but in response to the many people who are saying don't worry about
stroke order, I'm going to say the exact opposite, I'm joining the other's who say it's important.

I read an excellent summary on here (can't find who wrote) about stroke order.

Get a pen and paper, and write the letter a (lowercase).

From what we've been taught, we start at the top, round down and to the left to make the belly,
and go up and down at the right to make the straight edge.

Write it again, but this time start at the top and make the straight edge first, then make the
rounded belly last.

They'll both be legible, but the first one (that is done naturally) will look better.

After I bought a program to teach stroke order I saw noticeable improvement instantly.

For these reasons I'd avoid encouraging your daughter to invent her own stroke order.










renzhe -

I absolutely disagree with imposing a stroke order on the Latin characters.

First of all, it definitely depends on your handedness. Such "rules" for right-handed people
result in difficult writing patterns for left-handed people, especially when writing fast.

Secondly, different places have different conventions. There are numerous ways to write Latin
characters. The Romans didn't leave instructions on which stroke comes first, or in which
direction it should go. I guarantee you that the "proper stroke order" some people teach in
Germany is completely different than the one taught in the US or France, or even in a different
school in a different city. They are all arbitrary. A character written in a different order looks
different, it doesn't look WRONG.

Chinese characters are obviously different, for reasons such as brush calligraphy, stroke count
and stroke-order dictionary lookup, etc.










Hero Doug -

The point of my post wasn't about writing Latin characters, it was about writing Chinese
characters.

I used an 'a' because everyone here is reading and writing English, so everyone should be familier
with the letter 'a'.

Secondly, I posted that to illustrate that if you write something in a different order then it's
usually written in, then you may end up with something that looks different then it should. What
it should look like, if what you say is true, is subjective. I was obvisouly writing that from my
perspective.

But as far as I know, in China the children are taught how to write characters one of a few ways.
So if you also learn how to write characters in one of those ways then chances are that Chinese
people won't have as much trouble reading what you write because it fit's one of the standards.

And I'm saying the same thing holds true for Latin letters, or any other way of writing, the more
you deviate from the standard the harder it is going to be to read what you write.










dannydy -

i'm also a leff-handed,it seemed wouldnt have much problem for me to writing the order of the
chinese character stroke. But in fact, the earlier of writing character on the paper was from left
side to right side.












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HSK Exam - Jackpot and you can't have it because you are only 16 ... - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Society
Jackpot and you can't have it because you are only 16 ...
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View Poll Results: Should the girl (or her family) get the money?
Yes. 3 42.86%
No. 2 28.57%
I should get the money. 2 28.57%
Oh I don't know. 0 0%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll



Page 2 of 2 < 1 2






Lu -

I think the casino should not be allowed to keep the money, after all, as Skylee said, they broke
the law (or facilitated breaking the law) by letting the girl in, they can't use that same law as
an excuse not to let her have the money.

Giving the money to the girl might not be the best idea either, whether the law said that she
could not go there or that the casino should not let her in, she knew she was not supposed to be
gambling there, and should not be rewarded for doing so.

The mother might be the person who was wrong the most, she should take care of her daughter, not
bring her in the casino to gamble. So giving the money to her is not right either. Given the fact
that she was not only gambling, but taking her daughter gambling with her, she might very well
gamble away the entire jackpot.

Maybe the best idea would be to either put the money in some kind of trust fund, which the girl
would get when she goes to university or at some later time, or to give the money to charity.



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Chinese School - free hip-hop album by me, check it out if bored -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
free hip-hop album by me, check it out if bored
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-葛亚辉- -

This really has nothing to do with China, but as I browse these forums frequently and even post
occasionally, I thought I'd share my hard work with this community if possible . Roddy, I'm not
100% sure this is the appropriate forum for this, but it seemed like the best one, so hopefully I
can share it here.

anyway, I actually have two free albums you can download online....
just go to http://www.sun-zoo.com and click on music, and they'll both be there to download

if you listen, although nothing is overtly about China, you might notice a Chinese, esp Buddhist
and Daoist) influence in my thought on some songs.

and even if you think you don't like rap, check this out. It's got some bad language, but none of
the violence, misogyny, or bad message that rap on the radio has. I try to promote positive
messages.

(also, please don't confuse this for spam...I know it isn't super relevant, but as you can plainly
see I'm not selling anything, my site doesn't even have ads on it or anything...I'm just trying to
get my music out there, and since this is one of the places I post online, I figured I'd add it
here.)

THANKS!



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Pnyin - Comment on my accent!(2) -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Comment on my accent!(2)
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Pravit -

Most of us would agree that developing an authentic-sounding accent in a certain language is
near-impossible if you don't begin learning it as a child, and that having a good accent is not
necessary for being understood.

Nevertheless, I like trying to develop a decent accent when I learn foreign languages and
appreciate comments on what sounds foreign or weird. I've done a post like this before and
received some very helpful answers. Anyhow, I felt like trying out my accent again, so if anyone
has the time, I've attached the MP3s.

One of them is me reading from the beginning of Camel Xiangzi, however I fear I may not be
entirely understandable, so here is the text(please listen to it before looking, though).

I talk to some Chinese on QQ every now and then, but in general I don't have much native speaker
contact when I'm not in China. So I'd really appreciate it if any native speakers listening could
point out foreign sounds, mispronounced words, or bad habits in my pronunciation. Thanks!



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semantic nuance -

Pravit,

I think you've done a great job. Only 2 pronunciations I found questionable:

駱駝 --in Taiwan we pronounce it as 駱4 駝 2, not 駱4 駝 4.
著落 --we pronounce it as zhou 2 luo4, not zhuo2 luo4.

Hope it helps!










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by semantic nuance

著落 --we pronounce it as zhou 2 luo4, not zhuo2 luo4.


Are you sure? Did you mean zhao2 (wrong) vs zhuo2 (correct)?










djwebb2004 -

Pravit, I would LOVE to have a Chinese accent like that!










HashiriKata -

I've only listened very briefly but you sound quite convincing, Pravit, particularly in the first
passage. Keep it going!

With regards the pronunciations skylee & semantic nuance are about, they're still beyond me but
belows are the 3 entries from Wenlin. I also had a peep in "新时代汉语大词典" but only the
1st entry was there:

zhuóluò (= whereabouts, result, outcome)
zháoluò (= solution)
zháolào (= way out of difficulty, hope, prospect)

Edit: Pravit seems to pronounce the word as zhuòluò, semantic nuance may have meant this?










djwebb2004 -

Pravit, I played your audio to a Chinese friend, and he did not believe you are a foreigner and
told me you are Chinese. I told him you must be Indian because of your username Pravit, but then I
looked at your blog and I am not sure if the Chinese man in the pictures is you or not. Your
Chinese is very convincing. Are you Chinese?










Pravit -

djwebb: Thanks! Yes, the Chinese guy in the pictures is me, but I was born and raised in the US by
(ethnic Chinese) immigrants from Thailand. However, the family has been in Thailand long enough
that nobody really speaks putonghua. I've been learning Mandarin for a couple years now, though,
and went to Beijing last summer to do a short-term course. A lot of Thai names(like Pravit) are
similar to Indian names because of the Sanskrit influence.

HashiriKata: I was pretty unsure how to read "着落", since my dictionary gave me a bunch of
readings and I wasn't sure which one applied to the sentence(...连”车分儿“也没着落...)

Any other comments?










djwebb2004 -

Pravit, Wenlin has this to say:



Quote:

着 seems to have more pronunciations and meanings than any other Chinese character. Don't be
discouraged. Even Chinese people can't always get it straight, especially the distinction between
着 zháo and 着 zhuó. For example, a friend of mine says 着陆 as zháolù though the
dictionaries say zhuólù. The dictionaries disagree on whether 着 in 不着边际 ('not to the
point') should be zháo or zhuó. On the other hand, the distinction between 着 zhe and 着 zháo
really is important.

Some words are definitely meant be said with zháo and some with zhuó and some words can be said
with either. It is a bit of a meess. 着眼点 is listed as zhuóyǎndiǎn
or zháoyǎndiǎn, focal point, but Chinese friends say the former is more common. Looking in the
dictioniary 着先鞭, to go to the fore, is also listed under both pronunciations. The putting on
clothes meaning should definitely be zhuó and the reaching meaning should definitely be zháo.

A similar thing is 熟 shú, which can also be shóu. Wenlin says the latter is colloquial, and
there is no list of words where one is prefered and not the other. "The pronunciation shóu
commonly occurs with the same meanings and uses as shú."










bomaci -



Quote:

Most of us would agree that developing an authentic-sounding accent in a certain language is
near-impossible if you don't begin learning it as a child, and that having a good accent is not
necessary for being understood.

Actually I don't agree. I think it is very possible to develop a near-native or native accent in a
foreign language if you use the right metodology. I have been using the chorus method described
elsewhere on this forum (look for the thread called "Near native accents") and it is quite
effective.










Pravit -

Thanks for the insight, djwebb, it's comforting to think that native speakers get these characters
wrong sometimes too. I have always wondered about the shu2/shou2 thing, although every person I've
talked to pronounces it "shou2".

bomaci: To be honest, I agree with you. I really can't stand it when people start complaining that
it's impossible for them to learn X language because they're too old to be learning languages.
While I think that some people are more naturally talented at acquiring foreign accents than
others, I think some people are downright lazy when it comes to pronouncing foreign languages
properly. There are some people I've met who had been in China for YEARS, who could read difficult
texts without any problem, but still had not mastered four simple tones. I just don't get how some
people are able to read Lu Xun without a dictionary yet still pronounce Pinyin "z" as you would in
English or "mo" as "moe." In fact, my biggest gripe with Sinophiles(in academia) is that the
majority of them(that I've met) seem to either (1)not even try to pronunce the tones or
(2)pronounce them wrong. Why?!

PS: Bomaci, I will look at that thread later, seems very intriguing. Do you know anyone who speaks
Chinese with a near-native accent due to that method? If so, any recordings?

Any more input from native speakers?












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Chinese Tutor - Simple phrases I don't know how to say -

> Learning Chinese > Speaking and Listening
Simple phrases I don't know how to say
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WoAiJolinTsai -

1) For example... a friend calls me on the phone and asks "What are you doing?" And I want to
reply "I'm walking to the store"

How would I say this? "I'm walking to the store"

2) "I'm getting ready to...." (go out / play basketball / go to class)

3) "I am just about to.." (go, leave, start)

4) If you ask someone a question and they ask why.. and you want to say "Just wondering"



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semantic nuance -

1. 我正要走進一家店.
2.我準備要...
3. 我正好要...
4. 只是好奇.

Hope it helps!










Koneko -

Verbally, I would normally make them more succinct.
You may also consider the followings:-

1. 正要進家店。
2. 正準備...(外出/打球/上课)
3. 正要...
4. 问问罢了。

K.










WoAiJolinTsai -

OK... so what's the difference between 正 and 正在 。

Could I just as well replace your 正's with 正在's. For example
我正在要走進一家店.

正在準備...

Thanks










Koneko -

正 = just; just about
正在 = (verb) + ing

我正要走進一家店
I am just about to get into a shop

我正在要走進一家店 *
I am getting into a shop

* To me, this sentence sounds a bit weird.

K.










DrZero -

Could somebody do those in pinyin?










weiweiguan -

1)wo zheng yao zou jin yi jia dian.
2)wo zhun bei yao~~~(chu qu/da lan qiu/qu shang ke)
3)wo zheng hao yao (qu/zou/kai shi)
4)wen wen ba le
maybe that can help you ,i am a chinese girl.you can contact with me
my msn:gwhandnrg@msn.com skype:weiweiguan2










flameproof -



Quote:

Could somebody do those in pinyin?

Get wakan and you get the popup pinyin. I just loaded it to check the characters here.

http://wakan.manga.cz/










ziyi star -

weiweiguan



Quote:

1)wo zheng yao zou jin yi jia dian.


wouldn't the first one be: 'wô zhèng yào jìn yï jiä diàn' without the 'zou' ??










weiweiguan -

yes.you are right.i make a mistake,"zou"is not needed.












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Learning Mandarin - Anyone thinking of learning a new language? - Page 3 -

> Extras > Other cultures and language
Anyone thinking of learning a new language?
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atitarev -

Combining characters is a good idea, although there's often no match or character frequency/usage
or meaning is different. Using Unihan database (or also CQuickTrans) you can always find out
Japanese or Cantonese reading of the same character (plus Korean, sometimes Vietnamese), even if
it was simplified differently.

I also use NJStar Japanese WP and Wenlin to find relationships betweeen characters and make
vocabulary lists.

It's also time consuming but there are a few dictionaries online/offline and books, which can give
you readings of characters in other languages. There are not many, though. NJStar Japanese used to
always show PINYIN in character info, they discontinued it in newer versions.

HanConv tool can romanise Chinese character using Mandarin's Hanyu Pinyin or Cantonese Yale or
Jyutping, which is also helpful if you want to learn reading in both Mandarin and Cantonese.

--
Yes, with the age it becomes more difficult to learn.



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Lugubert -



Quote:


Originally Posted by atitarev

Natives usually don't type dagger-alif, it doesn't even exist on standard Arabic keyboard.


I shouldn't even mention the time I've spent trying to find a computer font that allows me to
write a hamzah without a "chair" but between adjacent letters, as shown in Wright's grammar, §17
(b) Rem. a. for the word 'as'alu.


Quote:

Yes, with the age it becomes more difficult to learn.

but certainly not impossible. I just finished 3rd semester Chinese. "Semester" in Sweden means the
equivalent of 20 weeks at 40 hours per week of studies.


Quote:


Originally Posted by Xiao Kui

But seeing the struggles that people have learning languages when they're in their 40s and 50s, I
think I should go ahead and start learning it now while the brain can handle that kind of info
overload.


See above. But at 63, I sure can attest to the difference. When I was 24, I got from scratch to
near-native levels of Dutch in two months in Amsterdam. I used to absorb vocabulary and grammar of
the three foreign languages taught in school (my age 12-18 ) automatically, not even trying. (I
suppose that this trait to a certain degree comes from my careful selection of genetic material ).
Nowadays, "even" Russian, an IE language like my native Swedish, requires quite an effort. Never
the less, in no too many years, I hope to be at least semi-fluent in 普通话 as well as in
русский язык (however inflected ).










atitarev -



Quote:

I shouldn't even mention the time I've spent trying to find a computer font that allows me to
write a hamzah without a "chair" but between adjacent letters, as shown in Wright's grammar, §17
(b) Rem. a. for the word 'as'alu.

Hamza without a "chair" (ء) is available on a standard Arabic keyboard, it's on "x" key. It
becomes adjacent if you type it between other letters (?).

Good luck with Russian and other languages you are planning to learn, you can ask me questions
about Russian, if you wish.










novemberfog -

Anyone thinking about learning Vietnamese? I've been going back and forth between either Arabic or
Vietnamese. If I went with Vietnamese, I would not have to learn a new alphabet. However, I'd have
to deal with tones again, probably the most difficult part of learning Chinese up to this point.

Is Vietnamese grammar difficult? Anyone have any experience learning Vietnamese?










Lugubert -

Atitarev: There was one way that hasn't been working previously: I typed the lengthening stroke
(Unicode 0640(hex)) and a hamzah (0654), and there it was:

ٲسـٔل

Thanks for making me try again!










Long Zhiren -

I studied some Korean (many years ago when I dated a Korean girl; and a lot of the Korean
community was insisting that I was Korean not Chinese...). Compared to Chinese, the grammar is
really different. Expressions get 很罗说. That relationship didn't work out and I've found
little use for Korean since. I would like some help to navigate Korean food though. There's some
yummy stuff out there.

I've been studying Hebrew for about four years now. The spoken language has much shared sounding
vocabulary with Arabic. It also goes right to left which is kind of cool unless you're right
handed. Otherwise, Hebrew writing looks a lot different than Arabic. My only use of Arabic now is
deciphering Middle Eastern currency for coin collecting, etc.

I've been studying Greek simultaneous with Hebrew. Studying more than one language at a time used
to be really difficult but for some reason, it's no longer a problem.










atitarev -

Lugubert, I (Anatoli) have sent you a PM on Word Reference (Arabic) forum, let's discuss it there

Long Zhiren, good luck with Vietnamese or Arabic, whatever you choose. To me, Vietnamese is not
different enough from Chinese. Arabic is quite a different game altogether, you have to start
thinking in opposite direction, like its script. It's so different from other languages I learned
before (unless you learned some semitic languages, it will be for you too). Vietnamese is easier
after Chinese, no doubt.










heifeng -

Once upon a time, well, ok, maybe just 1 year or more ago I tried to study Japanese. I thought it
was cool at first, but then again, starting at the very beginning of another language seemed a bit
terrifying. I got into it a bit (for the 2 whole months before I came to China), but found myself
asking how far did I really want to get into the language. After investing so much time in Chinese
I wasn't sure I wanted to go hard core into studying Japanese. Also my Japanese teacher kept on
telling me I had a Chinese accent when speaking Japanese (is this something Chinese learners
encounter when studying another language? Somehow you start inserting tones into the next language
you study? Maybe I just shouldn't had let on about my Chinese background...hmm...many questions
about what that was all about, but she made a point to mention this to me every class). Anyway, I
decided I still had a way to go with Chinese before I was confortable with putting it on the back
burner. So, basically, at this point I personally would just be happy with learning a Chinese
dialect, not for any business or 'useful' reasons, but just for fun. I took a few cantonese
classes before and enjoyed them very much. Yet my teachers will get worried looks on their face
when they see me carrying around sichuanhua or shanghai hua books, telling me not to corrupt my
Chinese studying with dialects...hehe. Then I have to promise to work on my tones more.

I still don't want to rule out Japanese study, or any other language study at this point, but I
have to admit that studying Chinese for so long, and trying to get to the point I want to get to
has required a great amount of time and effort. It will be difficult for me to do it again for
another language unless I actually pick up and move to that country (or I decide to study Korean
in either BJ or LA, always a possibility). Secondly, I don't know when I will ever reach that,
it's "ok" not to study Chinese anymore point, or it's ok, you don't need to feel guilty for not
working on this more, you can move on and study something new...I am assuming other people have
this voice in their head and guilty feelings if they don't study enough, at least I really hope
others do too!

Perhaps, on the 'one day I will study' list I would be interested in learning Mongolian or a
Chinese minority language that I may never really need to use, but will just find it satisfying to
be able to read something and know what it says, which is how my interest began in Chinese as well
=D










Long Zhiren -



Quote:

...but found myself asking how far did I really want to get into the language...

That is a good, wise question to ask. Before I embarked on Hebrew and Greek, I was afraid to,
thinking that my French and Chinese would get displaced and pushed out the back of my head due to
limited mental capacity. Here's what I've figured out after four years: (1) My mind's capacity
surprised me. It all kind of fits in there somehow. (2) I can open up in conversational French or
Chinese much faster now. (3) My conversational French and Chinese now quickly hit a dumbing
impasse that takes a little immersion to get back through. This impasse was not here before. It's
as if everything is in a newly jumbled state in my mind.

My conscious decision had been to focus on English, French and Chinese; while anything else was
with which just to toy around. I intend to continue with Hebrew and Greek to make them as strong.



Quote:

Also my Japanese teacher kept on telling me I had a Chinese accent when speaking Japanese (is this
something Chinese learners encounter when studying another language? Somehow you start inserting
tones into the next language you study?

Yes. Absolutely. I have a 100% ethnic Chinese cousin, whose first language is Mandarin, who became
fluent in Russian as a second language. His broken English has a severely heavy Russian accent in
it. If you couldn't seem him but tried talking to him in English, you would be convinced that you
were talking to a Russian person.










wushijiao -



Quote:

but I have to admit that studying Chinese for so long, and trying to get to the point I want to
get to has required a great amount of time and effort. It will be difficult for me to do it again
for another language unless I actually pick up and move to that country (or I decide to study
Korean in either BJ or LA, always a possibility). Secondly, I don't know when I will ever reach
that, it's "ok" not to study Chinese anymore point, or it's ok, you don't need to feel guilty for
not working on this more, you can move on and study something new...I am assuming other people
have this voice in their head and guilty feelings if they don't study enough, at least I really
hope others do too!

That’s almost exactly what I’ve been thinking! I’m constantly saying to myself that I’ll
be at the stage in which my Mandarin will be sufficient in, about, oh, three or four months. The
problem is, I’ve been saying that for years. I keep moving my goal posts back on what should be
my acceptable final Mandarin level. Also, Since I’m in China right now (and may not always be),
it seems a bit ludicrous to study another language, in the same sense of living in Italy and not
having perfect Italian but starting to study Hindi would be ludicrous.

But I also think it might be possible to lay down a foundation of the basics in a language that I
might want to learn (to fluency) in the future. Like Long Zhiren said, one’s mind is often
surprisingly good. I don’t think a language ever gets “lost” or “forgotten”; but rather,
it “hibernates”. So years later, after complete neglect, once you start studying it again
intensely, it comes back quickly.

Also, I kind of feel that in a decade or two my mind will probably function much slower, and
I’ll probably have a lot less free time to dedicate to language study. So it might be worthwhile
now to solidly build the foundation of learning a new language, which I could build on later. I
don’t know.












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Chinese Pinyin - As a Chinese, I hate Zhang Yimou - Page 2 -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
As a Chinese, I hate Zhang Yimou
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roddy -

Well at least we can forgive the foreigners as they don't understand Chinese culture and are too
stupid to know better. But all those Chinese people going to see it . . .

As for the links:

Quote:

有两伙狐朋狗友赠票，我想了想，免费的看看也好，看完了回来还可以骂张�
��谋

. . . I'm not sure they were all going in with a completely open mind . . .



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fulgentius -

Because I never tire of repeating facts, especially when they are being ignored:

"Curse," which stars Gong Li, Chow Yun-fat and Taiwan pop sensation Jay Chow in a tale of an
imperial family's vicious decline, is on track to be China's most popular film ever, a title still
held by James Cameron's "Titanic," which set a B.O. record of $44 million in 1998.

Please note that this article is about the reception of the film in China.












Ian_Lee -

Actually Zhang Yimou's films have gradually lost the appeals to foreigners.

"House of Flying Daggers" did poor in U.S. Box Office. And "Curse" seems also so so. Unlike
"Hero", the other two both got only limited release in U.S.










trevelyan -

The big problem with Curse is that it is sophomoric. The plot is uninteresting and moves so slowly
the audience is always 20 minutes ahead of the action on screen. Dramatic tension is created by
the deus ex machina approach of finding new bad guys to stuff onscreen, however improbable the
required setup. And the overt political commentary (corruption behind a facade of unity) is only
significant for showing how facile political critique has to be to appear in contemporary mainland
cinema.

In contrast, I'd encourage anyone who has the opportunity to see Mexican director Guillermo del
Toro's new film Pan's Labyrinth. This opened early in Toronto for some reason and I got the chance
to catch it over the Christmas break. It is a brilliant film with beautiful cinematography that
never insults the intelligence of its audience. I look forward to the day I see a Chinese film
that can rival it, both in terms of its creative vision as well as in the dextrous handling of
complex allegory and symbolism to make a relatively simple point in a subtle and rewarding fashion.










Quest -



Quote:

On the other hand, if you make a 古装 movie (movie of ancient clothes with lots of colors), you
will have no problems with the censors whatsoever.

That is until you start to enunciate ancient conflicts between different ethnic groups.
蒙古鞑奴 censored, 满清鞑子 censored。Oddly, it's ok to use 南蛮子 or
鸟语花香。Who's in power, 一目了然。










chichi -

A good movie doesn't have to be political. Like the movie " Cell Phone". It just reflects modern
Chinese contradictory lives.

Many foreigners think Zhang's movies of acient times are good because of the pictures, the scale
of the production and maybe even all those boobs. But they don't know Chinese cultures anyway so
they wouldn't feel disgusted with the plots of affectation and all those kung fu staff like
everyone in the movie is good at kong fu.










skylee -



Quote:


Originally Posted by chichi

Many foreigners think Zhang's movies of acient times are good because of the pictures, the scale
of the production and maybe even all those boobs. But they don't know Chinese cultures anyway so
they wouldn't feel disgusted with the plots of affectation and all those kung fu staff like
everyone in the movie is good at kong fu.


What a remark. it hurts. it's like saying that all those who do not dislike Zhang's movies of
ancient times know nothing about chinese culture. 好傷心.

I don't claim "As a Chinese" when I express my views. Perhaps this shows that I don't know chinese
culture anyway. 好傷心.










roddy -

Chichi, you're not making yourself look any cleverer. Lets try again . . .

Zhang Yimou's Hero: raked in 250 million yuan in 2002 [in China] setting a record for a
Chinese-made movie.
House of Flying Daggers: Zhang Yimou's "House of Flying Daggers" topped Chinese box office records
this year, grossing 153 million yuan (18.5 million US dollars)
and now, as quoted above, twice, his new movie is on course to become the highest earning film in
China of all time. Beating Titanic. Titanic.

You want to tell me that foreigners like his film because of silly inconsequential things like
'the picture' - ok, I'll accept that. Sometimes I even like books because of 'the plot', I'm kind
of dumb. But please enlighten us - why do all those Chinese people like his films too?

Links for the above numbers
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061219...g_061219110100
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_402756.htm

Incidentally any significant comment specific to particular movies would probably be better off in
the relevant movie-discussion topic, if there is one. If we wind up just discussing Curse we might
as well merge it with the current discussion on that movie.










chichi -

1. High Box office record doesn't mean that there are so many people actually going to the cinema.
After the production of a big commercial film, many corporations buy tickets and give them out to
their clients, employees. This is a typical Chinese phenoma. Have you been to the cinema to
acutally see how many people there are in the cinema to watch the movie? How many of them buy the
tickets by themselves? The tickets bought by companies and organization can be far more than you
imangine. Companies and organizations buy the tickets bec it's produced by a famous director. If
you give out tickets of a film produced by an unkown director, it indicates that you are penny
pinching because generally the tickets of big commercial films are more expensive.

2. Some people buy the tickets themselves bec after all it's produced by a famous director. And
the large dissemination of the film make people feel like finding how it looks like. Besides, with
all the cinemas densly playing the film again and again, you don't have many choices.

3. Going to movie doesn't mean that you like the movie. You may just be curious about how is the
famous director's product this time. You can't judge whether the film is popular according to the
box office record. Instead you should go to various forums to check out people's comments. After
you do that, you will find out what I say is true.










wushijiao -



Quote:

But still there are good movies having been made, such as Crazy Stone. It also shows how poor
people are here and how backward it is. But it's movie supported by the story itself, not the
scale of the production, not the colors.

I agree. I think the backbone of any movie is the script and the story. I haven't seen the Curse
yet, and so I am not talking about that film so much in particular, and skylee and Roddy have
pointed out that the film has been very popular here in China, so it's not quite fair to say that
the film is solely produced for foreigners.

Also, films don't need to be overtly political in order to get banned. There are other taboo areas
under a wide blanket of issues, including the mafia, sex, superstition, religion, things deemed to
be “anti-social”, if I am not mistaken. For example, Temptress Moon (a decent movie) by Chen
Kaige was banned for sex and drugs, although there was really no anti-CCP feeling as far as I
could tell.

http://www.answers.com/topic/temptress-moon



Quote:

That is until you start to enunciate ancient conflicts between different ethnic groups.
蒙古鞑奴 censored, 满清鞑子 censored。Oddly, it's ok to use 南蛮子 or
鸟语花香。Who's in power, 一目了然。

Very true. (What movie uses南蛮子, by the way?) But I don't think you really even need ethnic
conflict. The "Emperor's Shadow" (秦颂）was banned. Clearly, in this case, Qin Shihuang
represented Mao, and in a arguably negative light, and was therefore off limits. I have read that
this movie seriously distorts history, but nonetheless, I thought it was a great movie.

http://www.answers.com/topic/the-emperor-s-shadow

I guess my point is, if you make an ancient movie that is historical that involves military
conflict, you run a risk of modern people trying interpret it through modern political or social
lenses. After all, as the German military historian Clausewitz said, “war is a continuation of
politics by other means”. So if you can’t make things that are overtly political, then you
have to create some hypothetical states that have hypothetical enemies set in a hypothetical time.
Then you end up making a movie about the theoretical desire for power, war, love, lust…etc. And
whether for foreign audiences or to avoid the censors, you emphasize the universal nature of
emotions and conflict. As far as I can tell, this is the road that Chen Kaige and Feng Xiaogang
went on in their most recent movies.

Anyway, I would still defend Zhang Yimou. He gets criticized in China from all angles, many times
unfairly. Many people on the Mainland also seem to have the impression that his films are seen by
everyone in the West. At least in America, I think it is safe to say that very, very few
mainstream people are familiar with his movies.

I personally think that his good or great movies still far outweigh his bad movies.












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